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What the heck is going on here? Child prodigy related What the heck is going on here? Child prodigy related

09-02-2015 , 08:37 PM
Chessbase published an article with the FIDE junior rating lists and the main headline is about a kid named John M. Burke, born in 2001, that is now rated 2601 FIDE, making him the youngest ever to reach 2600. He's also the second highest rated U21 player in the United States behind Sam Sevian. I checked his USCF page and his USCF rating is 2455, which is strange because USCF ratings rarely lag behind FIDE, and especially not by 150 points.

BJJ, what is going on? Did that kid have some monster performances with an outrageous k factor? Does he even have any GM or IM norms?

Chessbase article

USCF rating history
What the heck is going on here? Child prodigy related Quote
09-02-2015 , 09:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chess By The Numbers
John M Burke is the most shocking of our three youngsters with #1 ranks. Two months ago on the July rating list he was rated 2258 and had an impressive, but decidedly not historic, prodigy rank of 207, meaning there were 206 players we know of rated higher than him at (or before) the age of 14.01 years. Then the August list was released and he had gained 280 rating points! We added him to our database, and his new 2538 rating was enough to earn him an initial prodigy rank last month of #10. He achieved these games with a 16/25 score in three events, against opponents with an average rating of 2368. This is a performance rating of 2470, so it's a little odd it was enough to spike his rating to over 2538, but his expected score would have been only 8.75 points in the 25 games, and the 7.25 extra points times a k-factor of 40 got him his gains (note that the games are rated individually, which is why he gained "only" 280 points, not the 290 the above numbers would indicate, but for looking in aggregate at multiple events it's a good way to estimate rating changes). Full details of his August rating gains can be seen here (login might be required, but it's a free account to set up).

Now this month his rating went up yet again! His rating change in September is due to his 6.5/9 performance at the US Cadet tournament, average opponent 2223. Still not exactly proof of 2600 playing strength, it's a performance rating of under 2400, but based on when the event was played his rating adjustments were still made based on his old rating of 2258, and so it was enough to earn him 63 more rating points. Burke is now rated 2601 at the age of 14.18 years! He is officially the youngest player ever rated over 2600 (breaking Wei Yi's previous record of 14.43 years - third fastest was Wesley So who broke the 2600 barrier at 14.99).

Going forward, we will see whether Burke is able to justify his record setting ratings. If he continues posting performance ratings in the 2450 range he will start losing rating points, even though over the past two months that was enough for gains. Of course we can expect him to be playing stronger opponents in future events, so we'll have to see what happens against other GM level opponents (despite the rating Burke himself remains untitled, with no GM norms, and just one IM norm, earned so far.) Burke did beat two GMs on these events (including one rated 2562), so while there's reason to be skeptical of his rating there are also signs he can play at that level. It will be interesting to watch his upcoming results!
https://chessnumbers.wordpress.com/2...ember-updates/
What the heck is going on here? Child prodigy related Quote
09-02-2015 , 10:24 PM
As for his FIDE rating versus his USCF rating, before these four tournaments he was 2258 FIDE and 2393 USCF, so pretty normal differential. However this put his USCF k-factor at 15 and his FIDE k-factor at 40, making a 343 FIDE rating point gain the equivalent of a 129 point USCF rating gain. Adjust further because his opponents' ratings weren't all equivalent between FIDE and USCF themselves, and because the USCF actually recalculates ratings after every tournament slowing down the pace of gains, and it turns out that he only actually gained 80 USCF rating points.

So in four events:
FIDE 2258 > 2601 (+343)
USCF 2393 > 2473 (+80)

Then he also had the Barber K-8 tournament where he struggled and lost back 18 of those USCF rating points, but I believe that event was not FIDE rated so it didn't hurt him there. Kind of cool (or maybe not) for Evan Meyer who is an expert rated 2128 with no FIDE rating, who can say he just beat a 2600 FIDE opponent!
What the heck is going on here? Child prodigy related Quote
09-02-2015 , 10:25 PM
I wouldn't hedge this at all. His rating is completely bogus right now and an extreme longshot to be justified not just now but in the near future. More FIDE nonsense, nothing to see here.

Last edited by Rei Ayanami; 09-02-2015 at 10:34 PM. Reason: hi YKW
What the heck is going on here? Child prodigy related Quote
09-02-2015 , 10:50 PM
I should have known you were on top of this. Really do appreciate the update, thank you sir. I need to start reading your blog more regularly
What the heck is going on here? Child prodigy related Quote
09-02-2015 , 11:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rei Ayanami
I wouldn't hedge this at all. His rating is completely bogus right now and an extreme longshot to be justified not just now but in the near future. More FIDE nonsense, nothing to see here.
Well, now that I looked at his USCF results and saw the Barber K-8, yeah, I agree the hedge was kind of silly.

At the time I was thinking that while he's obviously not actually 2600 strength right now, he might actually be 2450 strength, and if he posts a 2450 performance rating in a 9 round event now (with his K down to 10) he'll only lose 18 rating points. He's also young, so if he's "actually" 2450 strength now, and if he plays FIDE events sparingly over the next year, his rating might only drop to 2550 by the time his strength gets up to the same level and he stabilizes. If he never drops below 2550 again, and then his rating starts to go back up a year from now, it will be hard to argue he didn't "justify" the rating pretty well.

He did score 3/5 against GMs and 8/13 against IMs, in this span, too. Of course he's overrated now... but some quick improvement and sitting on the rating a little could possibly hide that.

On the other hand: 4/6 with a loss to an expert at the Barber K-8... maybe he ran a little hot to post that 2450 performance rating and is actually sub 2400 strength, and maybe he won't improve much in the near future. The rating is likely "bogus" enough that the hedge was pointless, you're right.
What the heck is going on here? Child prodigy related Quote

      
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