Tal Memorial 2012

[Do it Right]

Ahhh so you're fluent in Russian and referencing your own translation?

The only thing I've been able to find resembling commentary on that game was here: http://www.chess.co.uk/twic/chessnew...morial-round-3

"...Radjabov said [after the game] he couldn't think of a plan here. Hence he repeats."

f5 is not a particularly scary idea. Black's pieces are all so terribly coordinated that it's going to end up exposing him more than white. And with his light squares so weak that also opens the idea of white returning the exchange for the light bishop and having light square fun after f5 as well.

I thought it was fairly obvious but the easiest way for white to improve his position in the line I gave would be something like 29. Bxb3 -pass- 30. c2 with Bd3 and Rb1/etc to come. Black absolutely cannot just bide his time. And a major problem for him is that he also can't rely on his light bishop holding things together. When you're down an exchange and have a worse position, that is typically what I would call a dead position.

It just looks like mental weakness on Radjabov's part. If I can play white's position perfectly fine at bullet speed against Houdini, it should be child's play for him to play his position with about a move a minute against Kramnik.

[wlrs]

Agree with DIR, though I think you are somewhat exaggerating White's edge. Looks like after two wins Radjabov was just planning to consolidate his good start in plus equals-mode with a probable draw, and bailed out when the position got unbalanced.

[TexAg06]

Originally Posted by Do it Right

Ahhh so you're fluent in Russian and referencing your own translation?

The only thing I've been able to find resembling commentary on that game was here: http://www.chess.co.uk/twic/chessnew...morial-round-3

"...Radjabov said [after the game] he couldn't think of a plan here. Hence he repeats."

f5 is not a particularly scary idea. Black's pieces are all so terribly coordinated that it's going to end up exposing him more than white. And with his light squares so weak that also opens the idea of white returning the exchange for the light bishop and having light square fun after f5 as well.

I thought it was fairly obvious but the easiest way for white to improve his position in the line I gave would be something like 29. Bxb3 -pass- 30. c2 with Bd3 and Rb1/etc to come. Black absolutely cannot just bide his time. And a major problem for him is that he also can't rely on his light bishop holding things together. When you're down an exchange and have a worse position, that is typically what I would call a dead position.

It just looks like mental weakness on Radjabov's part. If I can play white's position perfectly fine at bullet speed against Houdini, it should be child's play for him to play his position with about a move a minute against Kramnik.

I agree with what you're saying about Radjabov giving up too early, I'm with ya there. But I don't know that I see saying black's pieces are so terribly coordinated and that f5 would hurt black more than it would hurt white. You're a stronger player than me so maybe I just don't understand, but f5 looks pretty natural for black, and it looks like the c8 bishop, f8 rook, and e7 knight are all well-placed for that advance. Playing f5 would also increase the scope of activity of those aforementioned pieces. Could you elaborate a bit on what you mean?

[John_Douglas]

Originally Posted by TexAg06

I agree with what you're saying about Radjabov giving up too early, I'm with ya there. But I don't know that I see saying black's pieces are so terribly coordinated and that f5 would hurt black more than it would hurt white. You're a stronger player than me so maybe I just don't understand, but f5 looks pretty natural for black, and it looks like the c8 bishop, f8 rook, and e7 knight are all well-placed for that advance. Playing f5 would also increase the scope of activity of those aforementioned pieces. Could you elaborate a bit on what you mean?

Play a few Blitz games in the position vs. a computer and you'll soon realize that DIR's comments are far from the truth.

It might be instructive to set the final position of Radjabov - Kramnik in a computer vs. computer match. I don't have any chess programs on my laptop, but if anyone wanted to do this and post the results, I think it would be interesting.

[EGarrett]

Originally Posted by John_Douglas

It might be instructive to set the final position of Radjabov - Kramnik in a computer vs. computer match. I don't have any chess programs on my laptop, but if anyone wanted to do this and post the results, I think it would be interesting.

I just got Winboard installed on my computer with Houdini 1.5a yesterday (yay!). After about 10 minutes, it says the final position of that game is +0.63 for white.

Do you want to let it play the whole thing out?

[Do it Right]

Dear John,

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Nf6 4. d3 Bc5 5. O-O d6 6. c3 O-O 7. h3 Ne7 8. Nbd2
a6 9. Ba4 Ng6 10. d4 Ba7 11. Re1 b5 12. Bc2 c5 13. d5 c4 14. Nf1 Nh5 15. Bg5 f6
16. Be3 Nhf4 17. Ng3 Ne7 18. a4 Qc7 19. axb5 axb5 20. Ra3 Bxe3 21. Rxa8 Bb6 22.
Qd2 Qc5 23. Rea1 g6 24. Nf1 Kg7 25. Ne3 h6 26. Nh4 Qc7 27. Kh2 Rf7 28. b3 cxb3
29. Bxb3 f5 30. exf5 gxf5 31. Bc2 Rf6 32. Bd3 Nxd3 33. Qxd3 f4 34. Ng4 Rf8 35.
Nxe5 dxe5 36. d6 Qd7 37. Rd1 Nf5 38. Nxf5+ Rxf5 39. Rb8 e4 40. Qxe4 Bd8 41. Rd5
Rxd5 42. Qxd5 Bf6 43. Qc5 Ba6 44. Qc7 Qxc7 45. dxc7 Bxc3 46. c8=Q Bxc8 47. Rxc8

I gave Houdini about 5s per move with no pondering. My moves were played very rapidly as well. I thought this was cute exclusively because of 33. f4? Aside from Ng4 I played nothing but the most obvious and natural moves and won with ease. But even if black doesn't play 33. .. f4 then what? If black just tries to hold on with 33. .. Bd7 then white can play 34. f4! himself and black's position is a complete disaster. I'm sure Kramnik would defend better than Houdini on a few seconds a move but I'm sure Radjabov would play much better than me just blitzing out moves.

[TexAg06]

Interesting game DIR, thank you for posting. If it's not too much trouble, would you mind explaining why black stands so poorly after 23...Rea1? I don't want this to sound skeptical, but it's tough not to sound like that on the internet. I'm just genuinely trying to learn something about the position. Any help would be appreciated.

[Do it Right]

I simply feel that black's threats are illusory in the position. His sacs don't work and f5 is the sort of move that brings white's position to life. Black needs to somehow improve his attacking forces without allowing white to either exchange into an easily won endgame or create more play of his own. And I think that's too much to ask from black's position.

[John_Douglas]

DIR is not seriously trying to understand the position, he's just trying to demonstrate that he is a chess genius who understands more about the game than everyone else on this forum, not to mention such chess patzers as Radjabov and Kramnik.

And I must say he has succeeded admirably in demonstrating this. I expect to see him make a swift rise through the ranks to super GM in the near future.

[mangler241]

Okay, maybe my word "ridiculous" in my previous post was too strong since Radjabov is playing Kramnik with not a lot of time if he doesn't have a plan (!?) and wants to consolidate his great start in the tournament - a practical decision, but I'm pretty sure if Kasparov, Karpov, Fischer or Carlsen had White's position ( and time disadvantage ) against Kramnik, with a 2/2 start in the tournament, they'd play on.

Round 4 was relatively less interesting than round 3: Caruana won against Tomashevsky for some inexplicable exchange sacrifice and there was a crazy game between Carlsen and Grischuk where Carlsen tries his best to get something out of nothing. McShane probably stood better against Nakamura out of the opening but his plan of c4 led to a slightly worse endgame which Nakamura expectedly drags out to the very end.

[Do it Right]

Stay classy John.

[John_Douglas]

I'm always trying to be classy, it's your idiotic posts that are driving me around the bend. I mean who are you even trying to fool with your claims of easily beating Houdini in bullet?

FFS, we all know you're not that good!! We all know you're not good enough to find moves like Rea1, Nh4, and Kh2 in under .05 seconds.

Just a suggestion, maybe you should use this forum to try to broaden your chess understanding rather than to stroke your ego. It might make you a better player.

[EGarrett]

What exactly is Do it Right claiming? I was under the impression that he was simply saying it was easy to draw the computer in the Radjabov/Kramnik position.

BTW, this would actually be good material for a new thread.

[John_Douglas]

Originally Posted by EGarrett

What exactly is Do it Right claiming? I was under the impression that he was simply saying it was easy to draw the computer in the Radjabov/Kramnik position.

BTW, this would actually be good material for a new thread.

He was claiming that the position was clearly better for White and he claimed to have beaten Houdini from the position at 5 sec. a move. I was calling him out for this claim.

But OK, I'm sorry for getting carried away. I'll try to keep to a discussion of chess positions in the future.

By the way, if I criticize your analysis of a position, it's not a personal attack, I'm just trying to challenge your understanding, and you're welcome to challenge mine. That's how to improve as a player, to constantly try to understand things more deeply for yourself. The whole point of this forum is discussion and an exchange of ideas. Going forward, I'll do my best to keep to that spirit and avoid personal attacks.

[Do it Right]

Originally Posted by John_Douglas

I'm always trying to be classy, it's your idiotic posts that are driving me around the bend. I mean who are you even trying to fool with your claims of easily beating Houdini in bullet?

FFS, we all know you're not that good!! We all know you're not good enough to find moves like Rea1, Nh4, and Kh2 in under .05 seconds.

Just a suggestion, maybe you should use this forum to try to broaden your chess understanding rather than to stroke your ego. It might make you a better player.

Are you really claiming Rea1 Nh4 and Kh2 are these sort of brilliant moves? If you're going to go out so far out into left field at least do it for my good moves (hint: Ng4!!). Apologies if me being on a slightly different level than "omg Radjabov should so draw because I keep getting killed by Nxg2 in 3 moves when I face the computer" is offensive to you.