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"The most renowned figures in chess were born in America." "The most renowned figures in chess were born in America."

09-30-2012 , 09:48 AM
Note: This is about the Americas, as in North, South and Central America. Not the United States.

"In general there is something puzzling about the fact that the most renowned figures in chess - Morphy, Pillsbury, Capablanca and Fischer - were born in America." -Kasparov

Please discuss this quote. Keeping in mind again that this is about the Americas as a whole, and NOT specifically the United States.
"The most renowned figures in chess were born in America." Quote
09-30-2012 , 09:57 AM
Why is this supposed to be "something puzzling?" Is Kasparov saying that exceptional chess talent should only come from eastern Europe for some reason?
"The most renowned figures in chess were born in America." Quote
09-30-2012 , 09:59 AM
Renowned by who? Isn't Kasparov himself more renowned by the general U.S. population than Morphy, Pillsbury, or Capablanca?
"The most renowned figures in chess were born in America." Quote
09-30-2012 , 10:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimM
Renowned by who? Isn't Kasparov himself more renowned by the general U.S. population than Morphy, Pillsbury, or Capablanca?
Well clearly because he's alive and most people alive today weren't when those other players were. I think he means renowned by the chess world. He does have a point -- Fischer, Morphy, and Capablanca (I don't know much about Pillsbury) could all have legitimate claims to being the best ever, right?
"The most renowned figures in chess were born in America." Quote
09-30-2012 , 10:33 AM
re·nowned/riˈnound/
Adjective: Known or talked about by many people; famous.

Nothing about being the best here, or being dead.

It's also not very surprising that people from the west are more renowned by people from the west.
"The most renowned figures in chess were born in America." Quote
09-30-2012 , 11:24 AM
My 2 cents:

Who the hell is Pillsbury? lol
"The most renowned figures in chess were born in America." Quote
09-30-2012 , 11:25 AM
Yes, so those are among the most renowned players in the chess world by virtue of them being among the best ever.

Outside the chess world, why would you expect people from the US to be talking about dead chess players except for Fischer?
"The most renowned figures in chess were born in America." Quote
09-30-2012 , 11:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganstaman
Well clearly because he's alive and most people alive today weren't when those other players were. I think he means renowned by the chess world. He does have a point -- Fischer, Morphy, and Capablanca (I don't know much about Pillsbury) could all have legitimate claims to being the best ever, right?
Then were does Alekhine fit in? Pretty sure he would rank higher than some of those names.
"The most renowned figures in chess were born in America." Quote
09-30-2012 , 11:53 AM
My own personal feeling is that the old Soviet Union had a much more prominent and successful chess culture and chess system. So they had a far greater volume of World-class players who had classical training, so naturally fewer individuals stood out.

I think that standing out in World chess while being from a country that did NOT have a huge culture and system for chess meant that the person in question had to be a freakish talent which made them stand out in history. Since they had so little competition for notoriety in their home country, it also made them more famous.

I think the same phenomenon can be applied in other areas and with other countries. Like in basketball, there are many, many American All-Stars, but only one Asian player who reached that level. Who was Yao Ming, who also happened to be 7'6" tall, freakishly large...and was the biggest star in China and the world.
"The most renowned figures in chess were born in America." Quote
09-30-2012 , 12:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EGarrett
Note: This is about the Americas, as in North, South and Central America. Not the United States.

"In general there is something puzzling about the fact that the most renowned figures in chess - Morphy, Pillsbury, Capablanca and Fischer - were born in America." -Kasparov

Please discuss this quote. Keeping in mind again that this is about the Americas as a whole, and NOT specifically the United States.
Probably a quote when he was making his series of books on his great predcessors..... have to sell the books
"The most renowned figures in chess were born in America." Quote
09-30-2012 , 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EGarrett
My own personal feeling is that the old Soviet Union had a much more prominent and successful chess culture and chess system. So they had a far greater volume of World-class players who had classical training, so naturally fewer individuals stood out.

I think that standing out in World chess while being from a country that did NOT have a huge culture and system for chess meant that the person in question had to be a freakish talent which made them stand out in history. Since they had so little competition for notoriety in their home country, it also made them more famous.

I think the same phenomenon can be applied in other areas and with other countries. Like in basketball, there are many, many American All-Stars, but only one Asian player who reached that level. Who was Yao Ming, who also happened to be 7'6" tall, freakishly large...and was the biggest star in China and the world.
The bulk of names he mentioned was pre soviet union. But i think you are probably in the right area, There was probably a deeper chess culture in Europe (chess cafes, sponsors and easier to travel to events or fund Title Matches etc) at that time and with ideas taking longer to spread across continents. Central and Eastern Europe was probably the hotbed for chess ideas at the time.
"The most renowned figures in chess were born in America." Quote
09-30-2012 , 02:20 PM
Those are 3 of the 4 players who have ever been the undisputed best player in the world, the most dominant players of all time (if you replace Pillsbury with Kasparov you get the top 4).

Yet if you looked at the top 10 or top 50 players at any point in chess history, at any point in time you would find most of them were born in Europe or on its fringes. I think this is all Kasparov is pointing out.
"The most renowned figures in chess were born in America." Quote
10-02-2012 , 02:19 PM
lol seriously guise, who is Pillsbury. Did that little dough cartoon thing that goes "hm hmmm" when you press his belly play chess?
"The most renowned figures in chess were born in America." Quote
10-02-2012 , 08:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PyramidScheme
lol seriously guise, who is Pillsbury. Did that little dough cartoon thing that goes "hm hmmm" when you press his belly play chess?
Lived to only the age of 35 due to syphilis, WC material otherwise. He won Hastings 1895, ahead of Chigorin, Lasker, Tarrasch, and Steinitz among others. He was apparently the US Champion from 1897 til his death in 1906.
"The most renowned figures in chess were born in America." Quote

      
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