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01-09-2014 , 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by wlrs
I know an unrated guy who's broken 2300 in ICC 5-minute and 3-minute
What types of FIDE/USCF ratings do your average 2200-2300 rated players (in those ICC pools) have?
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01-10-2014 , 03:46 AM
my unscientific estimate: 2200-2300 in 5-minute is titled players (from GMs to FMs and NMs) + other strong blitz players, in 3-minute lots of GMs/IMs+other very strong blitz players
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01-10-2014 , 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by YouKnowWho
Why the hell would someone spend so much time on chess to become so strong and yet NEVER play in any tournaments? This baffles me
When I was a regular at the Boylston Chess Club in Boston, I knew several people who loved chess but disliked playing in tournaments.

There are some people who just don't like the stress and pressure of playing in tournament conditions. Usually, they enjoy casual games or competitive blitz games (Harvard Square players).
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01-11-2014 , 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Rei Ayanami
I don't really see how this is a dilemma. It's a freaking chess tournament. You have a rating. Go play the tournament in your current section.

PS. Rei I'm a big fan of your posting in the NBA thread.
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01-12-2014 , 02:19 AM
Started playing chess since at 4, have been attending a chess club for 3 years now. Took me like a year and a half to get the courage to play in a tournament. Finished the tournament tied for first after beating a 2250. Unrated->2047.
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01-12-2014 , 02:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Hungry Hippo
Started playing chess since at 4, have been attending a chess club for 3 years now. Took me like a year and a half to get the courage to play in a tournament. Finished the tournament tied for first after beating a 2250. Unrated->2047.
Congratulations! Beating a master is big time. And you did it in your first tournament to boot. Way to go!
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01-12-2014 , 10:07 AM
For the few of you doubting that there will be sandbaggers in the U1600, rest assured there certainly will.

Even in the class sections of some of the bigger tournaments there are clear sandbaggers. A few years back I was playing in the u1700 section of the North American Open and was on 5.5/6 going into the last round playing the leader who was 6/6. We were only playing for about 5k but it was clear how outclassed I was. We played an anti-marshall ruy that lead to a very closed middle game where he just positionally killed me. I was amazed at how firm a grasp he had on the position in the post mortem. A year later he gained 100+ points in the u2200 of the World Open and hasn't played since. There is no way in hell that he wasn't 2k+.

As for the millionaire chess tournament, I would love to play but I am not sure that I have the time to be competitive. I am currently rated 2085, and would almost certainly put up the money if it were an u2100 section. I was playing a lot more in spring where I beat an FM and IM in consecutive games. Though I didn't play at all during the summer or fall and it showed with a 3.5/7 in the u2100 of NAO.

I think if I put the time in the next 10 months I would have a very realistic chance of scoring well in that section. I just don't know if I have the time to get where I need to be for an u2200 section. 100 rating points is pretty substantial when an early round draw could cost you thousands of dollars.
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01-14-2014 , 12:09 AM
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There is no way in hell that he wasn't 2k+.
Being underrated =! Being a sandbagger.

In this case it just sounds like your villain was (severely) underrated and it does happen. If you improve quickly and don't play much then you're going to be a good chunk underrated. Happens all the time in lower sections like U1700.
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01-14-2014 , 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by All-inMcLovin
Being underrated =! Being a sandbagger.

In this case it just sounds like your villain was (severely) underrated and it does happen. If you improve quickly and don't play much then you're going to be a good chunk underrated. Happens all the time in lower sections like U1700.
Being underrated does not, in and of itself, mean someone is a sandbagger.

An underrated player dominating the U1700 section of a big money tournament (North American Open), then disappearing until the World Open (another big money tournament) where he again greatly overperforms his rating, and then doesn't play another event afterward? That sequence of events does seem a little intentional and fishy. I dare say some level of efforts to sandbag seem likely, and fit the data...
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01-14-2014 , 08:42 AM
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That sequence of events does seem a little intentional and fishy.
You can't be forced to play low money events to increase your rating.
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01-14-2014 , 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by All-inMcLovin
You can't be forced to play low money events to increase your rating.
But you do have to play in some events in order to establish a rating.

Then again, in the days of the internet it's not entirely farfetched that someone could improve from 1700 to 2100 without ever sitting in a rated chess tournament.
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01-15-2014 , 12:05 AM
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But you do have to play in some events in order to establish a rating.
And you can honestly play in some events, establish a rating. Then have a period of OTB inactivity while you train hard. And show up to your next event very underrated.
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01-16-2014 , 12:24 PM
I just noticed that they have a nice, pleasant Top Under 1000 section which pays pretty well.
1st place – $8,000
2nd place – $4,000
3rd place – $2,000
4th place – $2,000
5th place – $2,000

Would someone intentionally sandbag that low?
you really have try hard to do that.
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01-18-2014 , 03:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by All-inMcLovin
Congratulations! Beating a master is big time. And you did it in your first tournament to boot. Way to go!
Thanks! To be fair, it was a drawn late middlegame/early endgame, but he pushed way too hard because I was unrated. I feel like if he knew my rating he would have accepted my draw offer.

Anyway, the u1600 section is going to be insane. I wouldn't be surprised if a 2200 RP wins it.
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01-18-2014 , 04:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hungry Hippo
Thanks! To be fair, it was a drawn late middlegame/early endgame, but he pushed way too hard because I was unrated. I feel like if he knew my rating he would have accepted my draw offer.

Anyway, the u1600 section is going to be insane. I wouldn't be surprised if a 2200 RP wins it.
Hey man a win is a win is a win is a win.

Some guys just hate giving up draws in general.
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01-22-2014 , 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by YouKnowWho
Nice post BJJ!

and yet.. I am unconvinced

I mean.. 2000 is really, really, really good. To have 2000 strength without ever having played in any tournaments and getting a rating sounds almost impossible to me, honestly. If I didn't know you, even your example would sound far fetched to me, because 1800 is also already really really good. But since you are not a liar, I have to admit that such instances exist. Yet it goes against every ounce of logic in my brain.. Why the hell would someone spend so much time on chess to become so strong and yet NEVER play in any tournaments? This baffles me

I guess the time will tell which one of us was right, even though I admit that you are now closer to being right than I am Let's just hope that the tournament happens!
It most certainly happens. When I was in high school, our chess team included a guy who had a USCF rating of roughly 1200 but was actually playing at a 2100 level when he was sufficiently motivated to do so. The problem was that he played in very few tournaments, and since they didn't have any prizes other than trophies, he would get bored and play very bad chess for lulz and not care about the outcome (as in, open a4, Ra3 Re3 f3 Kf2) or just get up and leave and DQ. So his rating would either not go up by much or even drop. But he would hustle NM level people in blitz for money constantly.

This kind of tourney would've actually motivated him to play seriously.
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01-27-2014 , 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Mori****a System
It most certainly happens. When I was in high school, our chess team included a guy who had a USCF rating of roughly 1200 but was actually playing at a 2100 level when he was sufficiently motivated to do so. The problem was that he played in very few tournaments, and since they didn't have any prizes other than trophies, he would get bored and play very bad chess for lulz and not care about the outcome (as in, open a4, Ra3 Re3 f3 Kf2) or just get up and leave and DQ. So his rating would either not go up by much or even drop. But he would hustle NM level people in blitz for money constantly.

This kind of tourney would've actually motivated him to play seriously.
It most certainly does!

1. Locate this man
2. Train him
3. ??????
4. Profit
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01-27-2014 , 08:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobJoeJim
There's a guy in my tiny little club out on the middle of nowhere that had never played a rated game in his life, but is definitely Class A strength.
For what it's worth, the particular gentleman I was discussing in that big post who I said I thought would never drop below 1800 again in his life? He had a bad tournament two weeks after my post and dropped to 1789. However he bounced back at the Golden State Open and is now 1855, and no longer provisional.

He also won a blitz game against an IM in the first round of the blitz tournament (the IM finished 7/8 and in clear first place). However he only ended up at 3/8 in the blitz event, after getting cocky and paying the price for it (his assessment, not mine).

I bring all of this up because it ties in to another aspect of potential sandbagging that we haven't discussed: psychological factors.

Playing a serious, long, over the board tournament game at standard time controls, against an experienced opponent, is hard. Nerves and inexperience will make it much harder. Even if someone could accurately be described as "2200 strength" based on their overall chess knowledge, their results online, etcetera, if they were to tank several tournaments to try to sandbag this Millionaire Chess event, they might not be as big of a threat in the lower sections as they "should" be. Tanking won't exactly get them the tournament experience they need; in fact it will just reinforce all the wrong lessons.

And with that much money on the line, nerves will definitely come into play for everyone. Experience will be a big factor in who can keep the nerves in check. The more I think about it, the more confident I am that I can extend my prediction of their being some very strong players in the low sections with a further provision:

I am confident that there will be at least one player in the Class C section who would objectively be assessed as "expert strength" or better based on analysis of their online games - who ends up with a performance rating of 1600 or below in the actual tournament.
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01-27-2014 , 09:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by All-inMcLovin
Being underrated =! Being a sandbagger.
They were responding to YKW's assertion that unrate/horribly underrated players who are at least 2000 strength don't exist in America, not saying anything about whether or not sandbagging exists. Clearly those players exist. I've played many games with exper-master strength local math professors who immigrated from Russia 15+ years ago and who have never played American tournaments. Unless you're willing to check every other national federation rankings (assuming you even can with changes to names on moving to America), you're gonna find these folks. Some of them will be greedy. And they aren't dumb. I really really hope this goes off so we can watch the fireworks. I fully expect the final round, top board U16 or U18 final games to look very similar to the U2200 games.
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04-03-2014 , 02:23 PM
To the surprise of no one..

http://us3.campaign-archive2.com/?u=...&id=8de5a5bf6f

“The organizers reserve the right to cancel the tournament if 1,500 participants are not registered by March 31, 2014.” - Millionaire Chess web page.
...
"only 76 players signed up by the deadline"
...
"Monday morning, April 7, when we will announce our final decision to the public."
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04-03-2014 , 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Punker
"Monday morning, April 7, when we will announce our final decision to the public."
Well I can't wait to see what their final decision will be!
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04-05-2014 , 02:05 PM
Just 76 hahahaha
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04-07-2014 , 12:13 AM
It's really weird that they keep hyping the announcement for Apr 7 on twitter; seems like if you were going to accept that the thing was a flop and cancel, you'd just do it quietly. Sort of semi interested to see what the announcement actually will be.
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04-07-2014 , 01:46 AM
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MILLIONAIRE Chess is OFFICIALLY a go!! #millionairechess #tournaments #chess #spreadthegoodnews
https://twitter.com/HighStakesChess/...37042939596800
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