I want to play this line in an OTB tournament game so badly. Some schlub's going to be playing me in the state Class C championships or something and get socked with this line.
IIRC, the mainline from here is
7. Qxd3 Qxb2
8. e6 fxe6
9. Nf3
And now when black takes the rook in the corner, white plays Qb3 and the black queen is out of play. Eventually, white can castle, move the knight and get the queen for a rook (in addition to the rook that was already sac'd). In the meantime, the initiative is solidly in white's favor.
I'm assuming as a Caro-Kann player he's familiar with all this. The longer he plays the mainline the better it is for me. Black has the option at almost any point to play something inferior but solid and concede a generic advantage to white and force me to actually play chess with him.
As mentioned in my previous note, I have pretty much zero desire to get into any Qxb2 business. I can't calculate it all out but intuitively it feels like black needs to start developing. Plus, I know Kyle likes attacking games much more than placid positional encounters, so I think Qxb2 stuff would be more to his liking. Maybe I can bore him to death
Is Black plan to organise NG8-->NE7-->NF5? I think that would be a nice post for a knight with long term pressure on d5 with his c-pawn.
fwiw I would have at least spent a day or two trying to calculate some lines with qxb2
Imo, White's position is already slightly worse. I don't see any real active plan. All he can do is try to defend his weak pawn structure. This is not the kind of position White should be aiming for in the Caro Kann.
And after my last post I check the database and see that this has been played for White by quite a few good players. So obviously there's something I don't understand here....
Lots of comments. I hope this means the game is interesting. e4, folks. Learn it, live it, love it.
Okay, well, now I have to actually play chess with him, because we are out of the main theory.
White's advantages: 3 v. 1 developed piece advantage after his upcoming move, kingside space
Black's advantages: Plenty of weak pawns to attack, including an immediate attack on b2. Good vs. bad bishop long-term.
White has to play actively and find a chance to turn his dynamic advantage into something static before black can fully develop.
My queenside knight is clearly going to c3. My kingside knight would like to go to e2 to g3 and keep an eye on f5 and h5. The problem with that comes when black puts pressure on d4. When that happens, the knight on e2 gets stuck on e2 to babysit d4, and now white's position is awkward. f5 remains an unchallenged outpost, the e2 and c3 knights are in each other's way, and the e2 knight blocks the e-file. Someday I'd like to play f4-f5-f6, etc. to break into black's position on the kingside, but in my experience these games almost never end up there unless black is really passive.
But that's a problem for the future. Right now, I don't see how white can seriously consider anything other than Nc3, which addresses the immediately Qxb2 threat. Black's replies can include Nd7, Ne7, Be7 and c5.
The knight moves aren't a problem, white just continues with his plan. Be7 doesn't really help black because it blocks his knight really needs that square. c5 is annoying, but at least it keeps the position unbalanced. Black presses the weak d4 square and white keeps his development advantage.
I checked all the coordinates in this post three times, and I bet half of them are still wrong.
Side note. I had one really interesting game from this opening where I eventually played f4 in the early middlegame after both sides had castled long, with my bishop still on g5 with the intent of sacrificing the bishop for two pawns, the long-term compensation of kingside connected passed pawns, more coordinated pieces.
I didn't convert the game, but the computer confirmed that it was a solid advantage after the sac and I consider it one of the ballerest moves I've ever made.
And after my last post I check the database and see that this has been played for White by quite a few good players. So obviously there's something I don't understand here....
Spoiler:
it's the space, stupid space advantages can compensate a lot. For example, take the bishops. Black's is officially the good one but it doesn't really have a lot of squares.
it's the space, stupid space advantages can compensate a lot. For example, take the bishops. Black's is officially the good one but it doesn't really have a lot of squares.
Spoiler:
Yeah for sure. I was comparing it to the variation with an early Bd3 (without h4/h5), which is supposed to be inferior, but here the Bg5 is a really good piece, preventing Black from developing his game.
Lots of possibilities here. A few candidate moves immediately jump out and need to be considered. Here's what I'm thinking.
Any move needs to start with an analysis of white's 8.Nc3. I'm not an expert on the Caro by any means, so take this with a grain of salt. But from my experience, I'm too big of a fan of this move here. My best guess is he played it to rule out 8...Qxb2 since he'd play 9.Rb1. But in these types of positions, I think white needs to put the knight on d2 to be able to play c3 and support the center, or c4 if black plays passively. If black can play c5 and capture on d4 and white can't recapture with the c-pawn, I like black in that type of pawn structure. Black would have the open c-file to work with and the pawn on e5 would be more of a liability than a strength, at least as far as I can tell.
I struggle in types of positions like this. I think there are a few ideas black could employ but I'm really having trouble picking one. I'm not quite sure how to proceed when black has a couple of reasonable looking things to do. I can calculate 4 or 5 moves in each line but they all look pretty ok to me in the end. In types of positions like this, I feel like I'll play what I consider to be an alright plan, only to realize in 15 moves that I'm strategically worse or something. If anyone can interpret my incoherent rambling and has some thoughts, I'd love to check them out in the spoilers later. Anyway, enough negative stuff, the game must go on...
I've never played this exact position, but in an analogous position with an early Bd3 (no Bg5) black plays ...Qa5+ and ...Qa6 with the white queen on d3. This position looks similar and I think the motif holds true. White's queen is nicely posted and forcing the exchange takes away virtually all of what's left of white's attacking potential. Plus it helps black develop and untangle. I'm thinking something like 8...Qa6 9.Qxa6 Nxa6 10.Nf3 and black doesn't really have any issues. He has less space but isn't really cramped and should be able to play ...c5 and play on the queenside. I'm going with it.
Now I really think I want to be playing nb8-nd7With my threats of c5 - I want him to play ne2 and try and get him to keep that knight tied to protecting d5 + protect against bishop entering via bf6 as I ulimately want to play g6. . But my ultimate goal would be to get my g knight to f5 which should provide enough of a bloackade to his kingside push ( I believe he is going to want to 0-0-0).
I am quite willing to burn more tempi at this stage as my ideal setup is to remain uncastled have a NF5 supported by Ne7 bg7 Qc7Rab8 and exert maxium pressure on the centre and c-file with a blockade on the kingside. - Maybe a pipedream but I think black has time.
Last edited by DiggertheDog; 05-17-2012 at 08:49 PM.
Reason: this post was prior to qa6
I dont like Qa6 - white should not qxa6 and give black a tempo - 0-0-0 now if he swaps queen you have rxd3 the ideas of organising for a huge push on the f file which will be much quicker than any queenside push that black can muster as he does not have enough piece and is always at risk of liquidating his only developed pieces off.
I dont like Qa6 - white should not qxa6 and give black a tempo - 0-0-0 now if he swaps queen you have rxd3 the ideas of organising for a huge push on the f file which will be much quicker than any queenside push that black can muster as he does not have enough piece and is always at risk of liquidating his only developed pieces off.
Spoiler:
No way. White has to keep the Queens on. The only question is where to move it.
After 0-0-0 Qd3 Rd3 only Black can be better. I don't see how your idea of an f-file attack is going to work - black has g6 followed by bringing the Knight to f5 and what is White doing?
Two Plus Two
Linear Mode
