My original plan was Nd2 here - but after thinking a bit I'm not convinced it is very good. I think Black's best move after that is Qb7 - if I go Qe2 after to stop b5, he has either d5 or Rfc8 with idea Bc4 on Nf1. And if I allow b5 Black has good play.

But I don't see any better moves for White. I mean I can make some moves like Qd2 or Nc1 or Rc1, or Re2-d2, but I don't see a clear plan behind them. At least Nd2 has a constructive plan to improve my position so that's the move I want to make unless I see something clearly wrong with it.

I'm thinking I will go for the position after Nd2 Qb7 Qe2 Rfc8 and make some useful move like Rd1 just to see what Black does.. I'm letting Black play d5 if he wants (after Qb7 Qe2), but I think in that position only White can be better (Black's queenside is weak, white has a slight lead in development).

9...b6 10. a4 is such an odd sequence, I never play either move in these positions.

Instead of ...b6, better to play Qc7 or b5 - you will never be wishing you had committed to b6 instead.

And as for a4, it seems like the worst possible timing for this move. It doesn't prevent b5 (well it does, but Black would lose a big tempo playing b5 anyway) and it does weaken b4 when Black's knight is still on b8.

This is incomprehensible to me. Qe2 any Rd1 b5 is a problem? But you weren't terrified of b5 on move 8 or 9 when Black could play it with a whole extra tempo?

Sounds like some very strong players have reached this position, so I assume I'm not right. But I would expect from the protagonists some justification for making these positionally senseless moves.

Well it would be more normal to meet a4 with ...b6 than the other way round, but the result looks kind of normal. However, I notice that while black has a perfectly normal sicilian setup, white's pieces look extremely weird. I don't know the strength of both players but it looks like white went in over his head following some GM games without formulating a game plan.

I guess Black shoud just prepare ...d5 which will be hard to stop forever and enjoy a very comfortable position. I see neither black's weakened queenside nor white's development advantage.

Maybe just ...h6 now, asking white what he is going to do next. One plan would be relocating the bishop and then Nf1-e3, against which ...h6 is aimed.

Ok, white's routing his knight to g3, after which I will have to play g6 to keep it from reaching active squares. I plan to have a set up on the king side with g6 and Bf8. So my f8 rook will have to find a spot. I have seen a game after 12. Bg5 in which the rook went to e8 only to go to c8 2 moves later, the middle game was not such a succes for black. I think an immediate Rfc8 is preferred. I do not plan to play for d5 soon, so it is a little misplaced on d8.
Now the question is whether I want to play Rfc8 immediately or play some other move first. Another idea is to play Qb7, pressuring e4 and d5 and making it possible to push b5. However, this would render g6 not very useful keeping the knightout, as gxf5 attacks queen and bishop. But I think black's queenside play develops fast enough, e.g. 13. ... Qb7 14. Nf1 b5 15. Ng3 and now b4 16. Nd5 Bxd5 17.exd5 g6. I do not know how to evaluate this position, but I think it's comfortable enough.

So Qb7 it will be.

ok, so he played the move I expected. I originally intended Qe2 but I'm not terribly convinced by it, so it's worth considering whether White can play tactically instead.

My idea is Nf1 b5 Ng3 b4 Nf5 - does it work? - bxc3 Nxe7 Kh8 bxc3 Nxe4 - I have Rb1 there which wins for White - Nxc3 Qxd6 and Black has too many things hanging - and if Nxe4 doesn't work than White's position looks fairly promising - I'm up a pawn - two bishops, weak pawn on d6.

The alternative for Black is to take on f5 - Nf1 b5 Ng3 b4 Nf5 Bf5 ef if Black moves the Queen away then Nd5 is clearly better for White - Qc7 Nd5 Nd5 Bd5 Rc8 Bb3. Does e4 work for Black? - I take Ne4 Ne4 Bg5 Bg5 Be4 Qc7 Ba8 Ra8 and I'm down material there. Okay, White takes twice on e4 and then Bg5: Ne4 Ne4 Be4 Qe4 Bg5 Qf5 Be7 I take on d6 next and I'll be up a pawn though the position looks drawish. But Black can give up his Queen there Qe1+ Qe1 Bg5. Queen and Rook + two pawns vs. Two rooks, Bishop, Knight. I'm pretty sure White is fighting for a draw there.

So I guess this e4 move pretty much refutes my tactical idea.

I could play Nf1-g3 and go Nd5 after b4. I'm not sure what's going on in that position - I'm certainly not much better, but it seems like a fairly complex game. But I think this is what I need to go for. At least I'm fighting for the initiative there, whereas after Qe2 I'm not sure what I'm doing next. And I also like Nf1-g3 because it tries to exploit Black's play of placing his Queen opposite my light squared Bishop.

As expected. I will now push b5 and continue with b4 after he plays Ng3. I don't really see any other reasonable plans for white.

Ok - again he played the move I expected.
I think I'll continue with my plan. I expect Ng3 b4 Nd5 Bd5 ed - I'm not sure what's going on here - but it looks like an interesting position.
The other idea for Black is Ng3 bxa4 - then I saw an interesting pawn sacrifice with Nf5 Bf5 ef e4 Be2 Qb2 Bd4 Qb7 then I'll play f4 and g4-g5 it looks like pretty reasonable compensation for White.
The other move I considered was Bg5 for White. Maybe it's also ok but I think Ng3 is more interesting.

If black plays g6, it does not really stop Nf5, as after gxf5 exf5 both the queen on b7 and the bishop on e6 are attacked. So the plan is to play b4, forcing the white knight to d5, after Bxd5 exd5 I can play g6.

I checked Nf5 again and I think it leads to a draw by force after Bf5 ef e4 Ne4 Ne4 Be4 Qe4 Bd4 Qf5 Re7 Ne5

But I'd like to keep the game going so I'll follow my plan.

Curious as to what some stronger players think of this position. Take this with a grain of salt since I'm not a Sicilian player, but I think I would rather take black after 16...Bxd5 17. exd5. Black has some good queenside space and his minority is currently holding back the white pawns, plus he has some nice central control and can play f5 at some point (after moving the Nf6, of course) gaining more central and kingside space. White's bishops aren't doing a ton (they're not particularly bad, well, maybe the LSB) and I'm having trouble finding a solid plan for white. Then again, I don't know these structures very well so I might be overlooking an obvious plan/idea for white.

What do y'all think?

Agree, white's position looks kind of dumb here unless there's some really quick K-side play coming after Bxd5 exd5 g6. I don't see it, but I suck so it'll probably be 1-0 in 25.

Continuing as planned. It just occurred to me that Nf5 was possible here aswell, which would have been quite annoying.

I'm not really too happy with either of my options exd5 and Nf5 -
I've really thought about the position for a long time. I don't like either option, but exd5 keeps more pieces on the board compared to Nf5 Re8 Ne7 Re7 ed5 - So I think I should do that. I think the position after Nf5 is just bad for White, while after ed maybe I will get a bad position if Black plays well, but there are still chances for Black to misplay it.
Also maybe I'm just being too pessimistic I have the two bishops and maybe some chances to pressure the Queenside. We'll see what develops.

So we're at the the end of my line. White does have the bishop pair, making it easier for him to play at two sides of the board. White has somewhat more space on the kingside due to his minor pieces on the 3rd rank, but it is hard to stop f5. I will try to lock down the queenside by using the half open c-file and then play for f5 and e4, after which the d pawn will become weak and my bishop can be employed on the a1-h8 diagonal. White can try to obtain a more dynamic queenside, but he will have to be careful not to create an easy-to-attack-pawn weakness.While writing this a blatant weakness in my game becomes obvious: I don't really calculate lines. I felt the previous moves and this one are pretty forced though, so we'll see how it goes.

So is the plan for the f6 knight to drop back to e8, wait for f5 to be played, then swing straight back to f6? Seems a bit slow, but I don't really know if white has any good way to disrupt it.

I think White should always need some compensation for having to play exd5 in the Sicilian. here he has the two bishops, but they are not immediately useful.

maybe he can play a5 and play against the b pawn? Would also have the benefit of preventing Nb6, which probably doesn't win a pawn right now because the pin on the diagonal is so annoying, but it's an idea that is hanging there. It's not easy for Black to attack the a-pawn quickly. Also holds back Bd8-b6 ideas, probably not important because after f5 and Bf6 that bishop doesn't look so bad.

definitely prefer Black here, but lots of scope for either player to outplay the other

Ok he made a move which I didn't expect, but it seems to be connected with a very direct idea of playing Ne8 and f5. If I try to prevent his plan with Bg5 then just Rfc8 and Bf8 followed by Ne8. I need to create some play in a hurry here so c3 is the most logical. But then bc bc Rfc8 and I don't really see a good move for me. My play on the Queenside is just too slow. I'm going to play Bd2 to try to get something going by playing c3 and taking with the Bishop. It also gets the Bishop out of the way of the upcoming pawn storm. I think the position is clearly better for Black, but it's too early to resign yet.

I think white has a good position - but he cannot continue to waste time.I think he needs to calculate the isolation of the black b-pawn. Strategically I think white is winning the war if he can isolate the queen pawns of black and the weakness of d6. Yes we might not be able to hold d5 forever but I think we should be +1 up. I think white strayed with his knight manuevring earlier. before Bb2.

Wow. I mean I think we all pretty much agree that black's position is strategically better, right now, and it's probably a good sign for white to be able to recognize that. Black is probably only a *little* bit better, though, and it's AWFULLY early to even mention the word "resign". That seems unnecessarily pessimistic.

Agree completely BJJ, it's odd that the word resign was even mentioned. I'm about as negative as it gets when it comes to looking at bad positions, but resigning here wouldn't even enter my head.

This is like bringing up the word divorce after your wife says she doesn't like the shirt you're wearing.

Yeah. Especially since he just turned down a line he thought was a draw (16.Nf5) but which merited a closer look with some weird continuations after the critical line mentioned, like 20.Bg5 with a QPPvRBN imbalance (which OK, is probably better for Black, but there are equal continuations too).

I agree with RoundTower that exd5 is a bad sign for white. I like the a5 idea; I don't think White is worse yet, but it's a lot easier to drift...waiting for Black to play f5 is not a plan.

Sell me on how black is better. Let alone much better. White has the two bishops. f5 if it ever gets played is gonna be complicated by our black bishop. Ok we have one isolated pawn but I think black has many weaknesses.

Agree with Sholar's assessment. DtD, the main problem with White's position is that it's hard to come up with a plan while Black has natural ideas and squares for his pieces (like f7-f5, rook on c-file, N to c5). I don't think you can demonstrate with convincing lines that Black is better but it's easy for White to mess up his position from here on.

White's probably preparing c3, to recapture with the bishop. However, that would leave the d5 pawn pretty loose, espescially since Nb6 cannot be captured by the bishop anymore. Moreover, the b2 pawn becomes backward, tying the bishop to its defence. That in itself is not a big problem, since the bishop seems to be well situated there if I ever were to play e4, but I have other options aswell. Some moves to consider:

Nxd5. This fails on Bh6, losing an exchange.

a5. Guarding the b-pawn before white gets a chance to play a5 himself. Leaving a little hole on b5, but it takes 2 moves before the white bishop can go there, let alone the knight. Still it's a structural weakness, I do not really like this move.

Rac8. Developing a rook to the c-file seems like the most logical and fastest position improving idea. The problem is again, which rook? The c-file is the only half open file for black, the question is which files are likely to open soon. The b file is a potential candidate, for after an exchange of white's c-pawn for black's b-pawn it will be half open. I don't see another file opening soon, so I think

Rfc8 is preferred. This also has the advantage of not giving white's darksquared bishop a 'retreat' with tempo on h6.