Go? - Page 3 - Chess and Board Game Strategy

Neil S · 03-12-2009, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yojimgari

1. What is the best free human vs pc program?
2. What is the best paid human vs pc program?
3. What is the best free human vs human over the internet program?
4. What is the best paid human vs human over the internet program?
5. Are there any programs that track your moves or statistics like PT3/HEM or anything similar software to this that helps with Go?
6. Where is a good place to post "Go" situations, like posting hands on 2p2?
7. What should be the first five books to read on Go and in what order?
8. What articles should I read on the internet about Go?
9. What videos for coaching should I watch on Go?
10. Do people have the Go equivalent of a poker sweat session?
11. What is a good Go forum to read and post on?
12. Are there any other tips for me or anything I am overlooking?

1. GnuGo
2. Don't know

You want to train with problems, as said above, or annotated games, not so much playing against the computer anyway. Graded Go Problems for Beginners is what I recommend. Volumes 1 and 2 for the true beginner.

GoBase has a lot of games. Free registration.

3. and 4. IGS PandaNet has several clients available. Free outside of Japan. Pay inside of Japan. I use qGo to connect to it.

5. Yes, there are software that could track your openings and whether you win or lose with them, but I'm not sure how useful it would be. Kombilo is some database software.

6. Sensei's Library is a decent Go community, but in my experience it has a strong tendency to over-use Japanese jargon, which can be annoying and a barrier ot entry. You could create a home page and discuss stuff there probably. Browse around.

7. My recommendation is to learn the rules then get Graded Go Problems for Beginners 1 and 2. Excellent problems to work. Also, start playing a lot of 9x9 games as you work the problems.

8. See #6 and #7

9. There probably aren't any unless you speak Japanese or Korean.

10. Yes. On servers like KGS and IGS you can get coaching with commentary. Some people even will do it free. Though those players are weaker, though that's fine when you're a total beginner.

I'm sure I'll end up doing some around here as we get going.

11. See #6, though it's a wiki not a forum.

12. Work problems, work problems, work problems. Lose your first 100 games as fast as you can. That's the traditional advice and I see nothing wrong with it.

Also I recommend when to start at 9x9, but jump straight to 19x19 when you get bored with it. Traditionally you go to 13x13 in the middle, but outside of traditional teaching environments in the far east it can be hard to get a 13x13 game.

Neil S · 03-12-2009, 01:40 AM

By the way, if anyone can recommend to me a good book on the opening for the 15k-5k range, I'd be grateful.

funkyj · 03-13-2009, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yojimgari

1. What is the best free human vs pc program?

Computers are still not that strong so don't play them too much.

Quote:

2. What is the best paid human vs pc program?

SmartGo is an excellent database and study tool. It also includes an IGS client and computer opponent. I use SmartGo to analyze game records and play over pro games in the program's database.

Like PT3, SmartGo can keep a complete database of all the (internet) games you play. Unlike poker, it is possible to remember your Go games and enter them into the computer afterwards if you play live.

Quote:

3. What is the best free human vs human over the internet program?
4. What is the best paid human vs human over the internet program?

KGS (free) is the best for noobs and intermediate players. IGS (free) and some of the korean servers have more top class players.

Quote:

5. Are there any programs that track your moves or statistics like PT3/HEM or anything similar software to this that helps with Go?

SmartGo. There isn't as much statistics in Go due to the dearth of hidden information but you can keep a DB of your games and observe different winrates with different openings.

Quote:

6. Where is a good place to post "Go" situations, like posting hands on 2p2?
7. What should be the first five books to read on Go and in what order?
8. What articles should I read on the internet about Go?
9. What videos for coaching should I watch on Go?
10. Do people have the Go equivalent of a poker sweat session?
11. What is a good Go forum to read and post on?
12. Are there any other tips for me or anything I am overlooking?

GoDiscussions.com is probably the best forums. Also good for posting problems. Sensei's Library is good for posting problems too.

Tip: remember to have fun. Enjoy yourself. When you lose at Go you have not lost any money -- it is OK

EDIT: tip #2, it is not cool to try to tilt people in Go by berating them. If you want to play LAG that is cool but rudeness is definitely uncool. Of course on the internet there are always some rude people, even on Go servers, but it is far less accepted than in Poker where needling is accepted.

Neil S · 03-16-2009, 10:42 PM

I'll open it up. If any 2+2 beginners wants a 9x9 teaching game, PM me and we can set it up.

chiachu · 03-17-2009, 11:43 PM

i play on kgs (sn: OiNG) and have a rating of about 8k. If we have enough people, itd be great to get a 2+2 chatroom going so its easier to setup games with each other.

funkyj · 03-18-2009, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiachu

i play on kgs (sn: OiNG) and have a rating of about 8k. If we have enough people, itd be great to get a 2+2 chatroom going so its easier to setup games with each other.

you can make a temporary 2p2 room. It will disappear some time after the last person leaves it but you can always recreate it.

Neil S · 03-18-2009, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiachu

i play on kgs (sn: OiNG) and have a rating of about 8k. If we have enough people, itd be great to get a 2+2 chatroom going so its easier to setup games with each other.

I know somebody had to be better than I am. Pretty sure 8k KGS translates above 11k+ IGS.

chiachu · 03-21-2009, 12:55 AM

im not too sure. IGS is stronger then kgs i believe.

chiachu · 03-21-2009, 04:16 AM

Oh, and there was a thread in OOT about go a while back. There were atleast a couple of dan players here on 2+2...

Neil S · 03-21-2009, 07:02 PM

Good to know we have a respectable high end around here all the way up into the amateur ds at least. :-)

Turns out funkyj is way better than I am, too. Apparently we're both rusty so it was even as far as that goes, but he just killed me twice, once in a total disaster of an opening that I just gave up on, and then in one really ugly fight of a second game.

I'll post it if people really want to see it, but the game turns on me killing something I shouldn't have, giving me a lead, and then me letting something live I should have killed, giving the game right back. Not a good gmae to learn from. Ugly, ugly, ugly.

As a result though I'm ordering some books on the opening that will hopefully make me less of a complete klutz at the opening, and keep me from being so lost and hopeless at it. :-)

chiachu · 03-21-2009, 07:21 PM

Hm interesting, i might have to check that out. The structure of the book seems like it would flow like a tutoring game, which are generally very helpful.

As far as my reading material, Ive read through Janice Kim's books. Ive also picked up DictionaryOfModernJoseki, but its a bit too advanced for me (although ive still gotten quite a bit of 4-4 joseki out of it).

Neil S · 03-21-2009, 08:46 PM

Looks like online, Slate and Shell gives an ok deal for the Whole Board Thinking books. The Graded Go Problems books I just order from the publisher Kiseido directly.

Amazon wants too much.

funkyj · 03-22-2009, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiachu

Hm interesting, i might have to check that out. The structure of the book seems like it would flow like a tutoring game, which are generally very helpful.

As far as my reading material, Ive read through Janice Kim's books. Ive also picked up DictionaryOfModernJoseki, but its a bit too advanced for me (although ive still gotten quite a bit of 4-4 joseki out of it).

While it is possible to study the joseki like they are tesuji problems, it is more common for players to turn to the joseki dictionary when reviewing a game to see what reasonable possibilities were in corner play, especially when they felt like they got a bad result in that corner.

axel_nld · 03-22-2009, 02:45 PM

this looks pretty cool. i know the rules but for the rest i suck. just played a few games of go on the KGS server.

Neil S · 03-25-2009, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil S

As a result though I'm ordering some books on the opening that will hopefully make me less of a complete klutz at the opening, and keep me from being so lost and hopeless at it. :-)

These came today. They seem nice. Big, clear diagrams with more space given to the answer and its discussion than the problem. You don't need lengthy discussions for your typical life/death or tactical problems, but for the opening the why is more important than the how. So I'm expecting good results from studying these.