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Ganstaman vs coon74 Malkovich game Ganstaman vs coon74 Malkovich game

12-18-2014 , 09:06 PM
Spoiler:
Bxd7, probably followed by Ne4 after either Nxd7 or Kxd7.
Ganstaman vs coon74 Malkovich game Quote
12-18-2014 , 09:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YouKnowWho
Spoiler:
Why both ganstaman and lka are most worried bout Re8? IMO Bd6 followed by Kc7 and then potentially Rae8 is far better (and I still think black is doing alright after that, unless I am missing something obvious). Re8 just invites trouble I think.
Spoiler:
I didn't consider Bd6 and Kc7. I guess it's another option. White has a4-a5 ideas, but maybe not particularly strong.

Re8 seems most natural to me, to try to get the King to f8.

I think Black is probably doing ok in this position, but White is the only one who is pressing for an advantage.
Ganstaman vs coon74 Malkovich game Quote
12-19-2014 , 12:01 PM
Spoiler:
What white would give to have his pawn back on f2 right now.

Also imo ...Bd6 is best intuitively. If ...Re8 then white can take and play d6 (or mb play d6 straight away?) to sac a pawn himself making things difficult for black. If black takes with the queen white can play Qe1 to meet ...Qd4+ with Be3. If this doesn't work, then the game will play out similar to if black plays ...Bd6 anyway so why give white this option? The position will settle and white can only enjoy a small plus due to the space advantage instead of being able to capitalize on black's misplaced king.
Ganstaman vs coon74 Malkovich game Quote
12-19-2014 , 02:29 PM
Sorry guys, I have some exciting non-chess/poker things going on... I swear to give the position more thought this US evening.

'Threadsaver':



(Two players who drink orange juice start with 1. a3 g5. Leading players are searching for anticomputer, antitheoretical ways...)

Ganstaman vs coon74 Malkovich game Quote
12-19-2014 , 03:10 PM
1. a3 g5 is an odd opening but i guess it can transpose into the mainline purrtroff after 2. g4 a6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Ne5 d6 5. Nf3 Ne4 6. d3 Nf6 7. d4 d5 8. Kd2 Kd7 9. Kd3.



as you know, white has the distant opposition and therefore a slight plus, but play is usually very drawish.
Ganstaman vs coon74 Malkovich game Quote
12-19-2014 , 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judit Bowlgar
the mainline purrtroff
It's spelled Purr-Troff, named after GM Kayden Troff and an Austrian female amateur Katharina Purr.
Ganstaman vs coon74 Malkovich game Quote
12-19-2014 , 10:26 PM
Spoiler:
White is now threatening to get rid of his d-pawn by d6 (because f7 hangs and Be6 doesn't help). Possible ways out are Re8 Rxe8 Bxe8 (covering f7) and blocking the d-pawn. But Bd6 Na4 Qc7 isn't a setup I fancy (I want to eventually play a6, Qd6, g5/b5); whereas Qd6 Nb5 gives White a bishop pair. So I'm going with Re8, exchanging a pair of rooks (otherwise preventing Qe2) and thus making the endgame a bit closer.

1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. d4 d6 4. Nf3 dxe5 5. Nxe5 c6 6. c4 Nf6 7. Be2 Bf5 8. O-O Nbd7 9. f4 e6 10. b3 c5 11. d5 exd5 12. cxd5 Bd6 13. Nc4 Bb8 14. Nc3 Nb6 15. Nxb6 Qxb6 16. Bb5+ Bd7 17. Re1+ Kd8 18. Bc4 Re8



Conditional moves:
Spoiler:
If 19. Rxe8, then 19... Bxe8.

If 19. d6, then 19... Be6.

If 19. Na4, then 19... Qd6.
Ganstaman vs coon74 Malkovich game Quote
12-20-2014 , 01:38 PM
Spoiler:
I am baffled by a lot of these conditional moves, all 3 recapturs on e8 seem reasonable and I could spend a day choosing between them
Ganstaman vs coon74 Malkovich game Quote
12-20-2014 , 02:26 PM
Spoiler:
I would play ...Kxe8. The Q is really misplaced imo with king on d8 along with the bishop on b8, so I feel that eventually playing ...Kf8 and unraveling is the best plan for black.
Ganstaman vs coon74 Malkovich game Quote
12-20-2014 , 02:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundTower
Spoiler:
I am baffled by a lot of these conditional moves, all 3 recapturs on e8 seem reasonable and I could spend a day choosing between them
Spoiler:
Yeah I think the conditional moves are turning out to be pretty -EV for him.
Ganstaman vs coon74 Malkovich game Quote
12-21-2014 , 02:59 AM
Spoiler:
I don't really understand a point of them, the way co-on does it. To make a correspondence game.. faster?! They should pretty much only be used for absolutely forced moves, while he is using it after every move, I don't get it.
Ganstaman vs coon74 Malkovich game Quote
12-21-2014 , 11:29 AM
Spoiler:
Quote:
Originally Posted by YouKnowWho
Spoiler:
I don't really understand a point of them, the way co-on does it. To make a correspondence game.. faster?! They should pretty much only be used for absolutely forced moves, while he is using it after every move, I don't get it.
I think he is just impatient with this format in this day and age. Also looking at his conditional replies a bit more ...Be8 opens up the possibility of an immediate g4 and I feel white has increased his edge. Even after the counter ...h6, white can just consolidate with Qf3 if the immediate g5 doesn't work.
Ganstaman vs coon74 Malkovich game Quote
12-21-2014 , 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YouKnowWho
Spoiler:
I don't really understand a point of them, the way co-on does it. To make a correspondence game.. faster?! They should pretty much only be used for absolutely forced moves, while he is using it after every move, I don't get it.
.
Spoiler:
Read you essay and seeking psychological edge.
Ganstaman vs coon74 Malkovich game Quote
12-22-2014 , 01:16 AM
Spoiler:
I wish he played something different because I was previously unsure what to do about this move. Let's first review my options: Rxe8+, Rf1, Bd2, a4, or g3. I think those are the only reasonable moves that don't lose the rook, the f4-pawn, or otherwise do something useless/dumb.

A) 19. Rxe8+. If 19...Bxe8 or 19...Nxe8, I'd probably have to play one of my other 19th move options, so I'll keep that in mind while I analyze them, checking if any of those lines work better with this rook trade first. Black also has 19...Kxe8, which seems to begin the king's walk back to relative safety. I don't know that I like the idea of allowing that.

B) 19. Rf1 does give up the e-file, but in return it protects f4 and thus frees my DSB to go to b2 or maybe a3 in some lines, and I hope that the rook on e8 blocks in the king a little bit more. To take advantage of the e-file, Black may try 19...Bf4 20. Bb2 Ne4 21. Na4 Qg6 or 21. Nxe4 Bxe4 22. Qg5?

Argh, it's happening again. It's after midnight, I should sleep, and so I'm not looking broadly or deeply enough at the lines. Can I make a move on principles and ideas alone? If so, I rule out:
C) 19. Bd2 as I more likely want the bishop on b2.
D) 19. a4 as after 19...a5, I'll just have lost the a4 square for my knight (in some lines it seems useful for doing things on the queenside) and otherwise didn't accomplish anything.
E) 19. g3 as while it does solidify f4, I feel it can be weaking to my kingside. Also, in some lines, my queen may be on e1 and want to move to g3 or h4.

So that leaves my first 2 options. In that case, while I feel it a bit risky to allow Black back onto the e4 square, I feel safer with my rook defending f4 so my bishop can be free, and so also Black can't land a knight on f2, as it seems he might want to in some lines.


1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. d4 d6 4. Nf3 dxe5 5. Nxe5 c6 6. c4 Nf6 7. Be2 Bf5 8. O-O Nbd7 9. f4 e6 10. b3 c5 11. d5 exd5 12. cxd5 Bd6 13. Nc4 Bb8 14. Nc3 Nb6 15. Nxb6 Qxb6 16. Bb5+ Bd7 17. Re1+ Kd8 18. Bc4 Re8 19. Rf1

Ganstaman vs coon74 Malkovich game Quote
12-23-2014 , 08:56 AM
Spoiler:
if that is a move, I don't understand chess.
Ganstaman vs coon74 Malkovich game Quote
12-24-2014 , 11:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundTower
Spoiler:
if that is a move, I don't understand chess.
Spoiler:
Imo a4 was white's best try last move. But if he saw that black was going to play ...Bxe8 then Rxe8 is better for sure. Getting in g4 is a huge win for white.

Now black can just about unravel with ...Bd6, following Qd3 with ...Ke7(Bf8 is also interesting). I also wonder if black meets h3 from white with ...h5. Seems like black is holding.
Ganstaman vs coon74 Malkovich game Quote
12-24-2014 , 12:07 PM
Spoiler:
The move Rf1 has a certain logic to it, in my opinion. As the old saying goes, when you have a space advantage, don't trade pieces.

While White could probably have played more strongly over the last few moves, I think he is still in the driver's seat.

In Black's shoes I would probably play Ke7 here.


Ganstaman vs coon74 Malkovich game Quote
12-25-2014 , 02:52 AM
Spoiler:
Nice catch with 19.-Ke7. It's at once an obvious and counterintuitive move; it gets the king to much-needed safety, but only by brushing up temporarily against the abyss (all sorts of tactical geometry: d6+, e-file, knight fork relation between queen and king) and running in the opposite direction it was planning to flee.
Ganstaman vs coon74 Malkovich game Quote
12-25-2014 , 12:04 PM
Spoiler:
I'm not sure if the immediate 19...Ke7 is quick enough. If white plays 20.a4 Kf8 21.a5 Qd8 22.Ba3 Bd6 he might get the 2 bishops with 23.Nb5. If black plays 23...Bxb5, then 24.Bxb5 followed by 25.a6 looks very good for white's 2 bishops. It's also a disaster if white is able to swap his N for the dark squared bishop imo unless black can win the d5 pawn or something (even then it's dodgy).

This is why I thought black had to play 19...Bd6 first to meet 20.a4 with 20...a6, and only play 20...Ke7 after white plays 20.Qd3 threatening Qg3. And if white plays a4-a5 Na4, black can at the very least capture on a4 with the position not looking half as bad as if he played 19...Ke7. It all depends on the next few moves whether black's position capitulates, or he will escape with a slightly inferior position.
Ganstaman vs coon74 Malkovich game Quote
12-25-2014 , 01:26 PM
Spoiler:
maybe a6 and bd6 now and then black figures out where to go with the king. No way he plays ke7 here after having committed to bxe8 last move
Ganstaman vs coon74 Malkovich game Quote
12-25-2014 , 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by watergun7
Spoiler:
I'm not sure if the immediate 19...Ke7 is quick enough. If white plays 20.a4 Kf8 21.a5 Qd8 22.Ba3 Bd6 he might get the 2 bishops with 23.Nb5. If black plays 23...Bxb5, then 24.Bxb5 followed by 25.a6 looks very good for white's 2 bishops.
Spoiler:
After 24.-Re4 in this line, Black should be able to grab a pawn. White doesn't look too dangerous here.
Ganstaman vs coon74 Malkovich game Quote
12-25-2014 , 06:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rei Ayanami
Spoiler:
After 24.-Re4 in this line, Black should be able to grab a pawn. White doesn't look too dangerous here.
Spoiler:
I'm not so sure since that's kinda beyond the limitations of me thinking in my head :S. Haven't played chess for a good 4 years now.

In any case after ...Ke7 I feel white should immediately go for a4-a5-a6 even without Nb5. I feel the right set up is to then put the Q on d3, the bishop on b2 and go from there. Actually now it looks like Ba3 is just a waste of time.

Anyway I agree with roundtower. There is no way that black is thinking about ...Ke7 having conditional moved with ...Bxe8 a a move ago.
Ganstaman vs coon74 Malkovich game Quote
12-25-2014 , 06:33 PM
Spoiler:
Quote:
Originally Posted by watergun7
I'm not so sure since that's kinda beyond the limitations of me thinking in my head :S.
I'm moving the pieces.
Ganstaman vs coon74 Malkovich game Quote
12-28-2014 , 12:28 AM
Happy holidays, let us all make all the right moves in life!



1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. d4 d6 4. Nf3 dxe5 5. Nxe5 c6 6. c4 Nf6 7. Be2 Bf5 8. O-O Nbd7 9. f4 e6 10. b3 c5 11. d5 exd5 12. cxd5 Bd6 13. Nc4 Bb8 14. Nc3 Nb6 15. Nxb6 Qxb6 16. Bb5+ Bd7 17. Re1+ Kd8 18. Bc4 Re8 19. Rf1 a6


Spoiler:
Screw it, I want a battery on b8-h2 at any cost (with Bg4, Nh5, g5 ideas), for which purpose I need to keep White's pieces out of b5. The a7 square for the B is also nice. If I'm messing up, so be it, I have bigger concerns than the result of this game anyway. Bring a4 on! (Though I'm not totally sure which move order to choose vs it - whether I should set up Bg4, Nh5, g5, Qd6 tediously or there's a shortcut.)

Conditional moves:
Spoiler:
If 20. Na4, then 20... Qd6 21. Ba3 Ba7.

If 20. d6, then 20... Be6 21. Bxe6 Rxe6.
Ganstaman vs coon74 Malkovich game Quote
12-28-2014 , 12:51 AM
Spoiler:
Welcome back.

That first conditional move is characteristically reckless. 20. Na4 Bxa4 21. bxa4 Qb4 needs a thorough evaluation! 22.-Re4 is coming in some lines, and White's pawns are hilarious. This looks good for Black.
Ganstaman vs coon74 Malkovich game Quote

      
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