*** Chess Low Content Thread ***

[jewbinson]

too many exclamation marks

[bigpooch]

Oчень хорошо !

[smilingbill]

too many letters from another alphabet

beautiful study, thanks for sharing cashgomer

[cashgomer]

Originally Posted by jewbinson

too many exclamation marks

I have no problem giving lots of exclams there.

I see no reason why e4 should get more than the other moves tho.

[jd_poker]

After leaving Rybka on the study for a while: what do people think to 2... g3 ?

[BobJoeJim]

Originally Posted by jd_poker

After leaving Rybka on the study for a while: what do people think to 2... g3 ?

You mean 2. ... g2+? That came up in my computer analysis too. Looks interesting... playing through a few lines it's looking kind of like black might have some drawing chances, according to the computer. I'm not good enough to contribute any real analysis, but it would be interesting to hear what good human analysis says.

[cashgomer]

Originally Posted by BobJoeJim

You mean 2. ... g2+? That came up in my computer analysis too. Looks interesting... playing through a few lines it's looking kind of like black might have some drawing chances, according to the computer. I'm not good enough to contribute any real analysis, but it would be interesting to hear what good human analysis says.

Bad human and bot analysis can't find white win yet vs 2...g2 3.Kd2 Qd7 4.e8Q Qe8 5.Qh2 Qg6 Would hate to try to say 4vs3 Q ending after 6.Qg1 Qh6 7.Ne3 Qd6 8.Kc1 and etc is win....

Strong players all seem to land on 2...Qh7 pretty quick so wait for them I guess.

[jd_poker]

My analysis so far showing that 1... Nf4+ is indeed forced, that the YKW variation is losing for black, and that 2... g2 gives black a drawing chance.

1. e7 Nf4+ (1... a3 2. Qxb6+ Ka4 3. Qa6#) (1... b5 2. Qb6#) (1... c4+ 2. Kd2
Qh6+ 3. Qxh6 a3 4. Qxb6+ Ka4 5. e8=Q#) (1... Ka6 2. Qxb6#) (1... Kb5 2. Qxb6#)
(1... c4+ 2. Kd2 Qh6+ 3. Qxh6 a3 4. Qxb6+ Ka4 5. e8=Q#) (1... Ne1+ 2. Kd2 Nf3+
3. Ke3 Qh6+ 4. Qxh6 a3 5. Qxb6+ Ka4 6. e8=Q#) (1... Ne3 2. Qxb6#) (1... Nh4 2.
Qxb6#) (1... h1=Q 2. Qxb6#) (1... Qh4 2. Qxb6#) (1... Qh5 2. Qxb6#) (1... Qh6
2. Qxh6 Nf4+ 3. Qxf4 h1=Q 4. Qxa4+ Kxa4 5. e8=Q+ Ka5 6. Qa8+ Kb5 7. c4#) (1...
Qh7+ 2. Kd2 Qc2+ 3. Kxc2 Ne3+ 4. Nxe3 h1=Q 5. Nc4+ Kb5 6. e8=Q+ Qc6 7. Qexc6+
Ka6 8. Qxb6#) (1... Qh8 2. Qxb6#) (1... Qg4 2. Qxb6#) (1... Qf5+ 2. Qxf5 h1=R (
2... h1=Q 3. e8=Q Qb1+) 3. b4+ axb3 4. e8=Q Rh8 5. Qf6 Ne1+ 6. Kc4 Rh4+ 7. Qxh4
bxa2 8. Qa8#) (1... Qe6 2. Qxe6 Nf4+ 3. Nxf4 h1=Q 4. e8=Q Qb1+ 5. Ke3 Qc1+ 6.
Kf3 Qh1+ 7. Ng2 Qf1+ 8. Kxg3 Qf8 9. Qxf8 a3 10. Qd7 axb2 11. Qa8#) (1... Qd7 2.
Qxb6#) (1... Qc8 2. Qxb6#)

2. Qxf4 g2+ (2... Qh7+ $2 3. Kd2 h1=Q (3... Qxe7 4.
b4+ cxb4 5. cxb4+ Ka6 6. Nxe7 h1=Q) 4. Qxa4+ Kxa4 5. e8=Q+ Ka5 6. Qa8+ Kb5 7.
Nc7+ Qxc7 8. a4+ Kc4 9. Qg8+ Qd5+ 10. Kc2 Qxg8 11. e4) 3. Kd2 Qd7 4. e8=Q Qxe8
5. Qxh2 Qg6 (5... Qg8 $2 $16 {1.25/6}) 6. Qg1 Qh6+ 7. Ne3 Qd6+ 8. Kc2 Qg6+ 9.
Kc1 Qh6 10. Qxg2 Qxe3+ 11. Kc2 (11. Kd1 b5 (11... Qe6 12. a3 (12. Qa8+ Kb5 13.
a3 Qd6+ 14. Kc2 $14 {0.53/6}) (12. Kc2 Qxa2 13. Qa8+ Kb5 14. Qe8+ $11 {0.00/6})
12... Ka6 13. Kc2 Qb3+ 14. Kc1 $14 {0.70/6}) (11... Kb5 12. Qd5 (12. Qg4 Ka5
13. Kc2 b5 14. Qf3 $14 {0.60/6}) (12. a3 Qe6 13. Qf3 Ka6 14. e4 $14 {0.69/6})
12... Qf4 13. Kc2 Qg4 14. Qf3 $16 {0.72/6}) (11... Qe8 12. Qd5 (12. Kc2 b5 13.
e4 Qe5 14. a3 $14 {0.58/6}) (12. a3 Qf7 13. Kc2 Qb3+ 14. Kc1 $14 {0.70/6})
12... Qg6 13. b4+ axb3 14. axb3 $16 {0.80/6}) (11... Qe7 12. Qa8+ (12. Qd5 Qh7
13. Kc1 Qh6+ 14. Kc2 $14 {0.70/6}) (12. Kc2 b5 13. Qa8+ Kb6 14. e4 $14 {0.70/6}
) 12... Kb5 13. b3 Qd7+ 14. Kc2 $18 {3.07/6}) 12. Qd5 (12. Qg7 Kb6 13. Qg6+ Ka5
14. Qd6 $14 {0.52/6}) (12. Qb7 c4 13. Qf3 Qe5 14. Kc2 $14 {0.57/6}) 12... Qf2
13. Qd8+ Ka6 14. Qc8+ $14 {0.67/6}) 11... Qe7 (11... Qe8 12. Qf3 (12. Qg4 Qe7
13. Qf3 Qe6 14. Kb1 $14 {0.68/6}) (12. e4 Qe6 13. a3 Qb3+ 14. Kc1 $14 {0.70/6})
12... b5 13. e4 Qg6 14. a3 $16 {0.80/6}) (11... Qe6 12. b3 (12. a3 b5 13. e4
Qb3+ 14. Kc1 $14 {0.70/6}) (12. Kb1 Qd7 13. Qa8+ Kb5 14. Qh1 $14 {0.60/6})
12... axb3+ 13. axb3 Kb5 14. e4 $16 {0.83/6}) (11... Kb5 12. b3 (12. Qf3 Qe6
13. Kb1 Qg8 14. a3 $16 {0.76/6}) (12. Qg4 Ka5 13. Qf3 Qe6 14. a3 $14 {0.70/6})
12... axb3+ 13. axb3 Qe6 14. e4 $16 {0.83/6}) (11... b5 12. Kb1 (12. Qf3 Qe6
13. Kb1 Kb6 14. e4 $14 {0.61/6}) (12. Qa8+ Kb6 13. Qd8+ Kc6 14. Qf6+ $14 {0.60/
6}) 12... b4 13. Qa8+ Kb5 14. Qb7+ $16 {0.85/6}) 12. Qa8+ (12. b3 b5 13. Qa8+
Kb6 14. e4 $14 {0.61/6}) (12. Qf3 Qe6 13. a3 Qb3+ 14. Kc1 $16 {0.71/6}) (12. a3
) (12. e4) 12... Kb5 13. c4+ Kxc4 14. Qxa4+ $16 {0.79/6} *

FEN at the end of the interesting line that gives black a drawing chance

8/8/1p6/k1p5/p7/2P1q3/PP2P1Q1/2K5 w - - 0 11

Diagram

[fezjones]

cool. i really think g2 is also a very human move. Qh7 would be chosen by many strong players but the discovered check is tempting

[jewbinson]

Originally Posted by jd_poker

My analysis so far showing that 1... Nf4+ is indeed forced, that the YKW variation is losing for black, and that 2... g2 gives black a drawing chance.

1. e7 Nf4+ (1... a3 2. Qxb6+ Ka4 3. Qa6#) (1... b5 2. Qb6#) (1... c4+ 2. Kd2
Qh6+ 3. Qxh6 a3 4. Qxb6+ Ka4 5. e8=Q#) (1... Ka6 2. Qxb6#) (1... Kb5 2. Qxb6#)
(1... c4+ 2. Kd2 Qh6+ 3. Qxh6 a3 4. Qxb6+ Ka4 5. e8=Q#) (1... Ne1+ 2. Kd2 Nf3+
3. Ke3 Qh6+ 4. Qxh6 a3 5. Qxb6+ Ka4 6. e8=Q#) (1... Ne3 2. Qxb6#) (1... Nh4 2.
Qxb6#) (1... h1=Q 2. Qxb6#) (1... Qh4 2. Qxb6#) (1... Qh5 2. Qxb6#) (1... Qh6
2. Qxh6 Nf4+ 3. Qxf4 h1=Q 4. Qxa4+ Kxa4 5. e8=Q+ Ka5 6. Qa8+ Kb5 7. c4#) (1...
Qh7+ 2. Kd2 Qc2+ 3. Kxc2 Ne3+ 4. Nxe3 h1=Q 5. Nc4+ Kb5 6. e8=Q+ Qc6 7. Qexc6+
Ka6 8. Qxb6#) (1... Qh8 2. Qxb6#) (1... Qg4 2. Qxb6#) (1... Qf5+ 2. Qxf5 h1=R (
2... h1=Q 3. e8=Q Qb1+) 3. b4+ axb3 4. e8=Q Rh8 5. Qf6 Ne1+ 6. Kc4 Rh4+ 7. Qxh4
bxa2 8. Qa8#) (1... Qe6 2. Qxe6 Nf4+ 3. Nxf4 h1=Q 4. e8=Q Qb1+ 5. Ke3 Qc1+ 6.
Kf3 Qh1+ 7. Ng2 Qf1+ 8. Kxg3 Qf8 9. Qxf8 a3 10. Qd7 axb2 11. Qa8#) (1... Qd7 2.
Qxb6#) (1... Qc8 2. Qxb6#)

2. Qxf4 g2+ (2... Qh7+ $2 3. Kd2 h1=Q (3... Qxe7 4.
b4+ cxb4 5. cxb4+ Ka6 6. Nxe7 h1=Q) 4. Qxa4+ Kxa4 5. e8=Q+ Ka5 6. Qa8+ Kb5 7.
Nc7+ Qxc7 8. a4+ Kc4 9. Qg8+ Qd5+ 10. Kc2 Qxg8 11. e4) 3. Kd2 Qd7 4. e8=Q Qxe8
5. Qxh2 Qg6 (5... Qg8 $2 $16 {1.25/6}) 6. Qg1 Qh6+ 7. Ne3 Qd6+ 8. Kc2 Qg6+ 9.
Kc1 Qh6 10. Qxg2 Qxe3+ 11. Kc2 (11. Kd1 b5 (11... Qe6 12. a3 (12. Qa8+ Kb5 13.
a3 Qd6+ 14. Kc2 $14 {0.53/6}) (12. Kc2 Qxa2 13. Qa8+ Kb5 14. Qe8+ $11 {0.00/6})
12... Ka6 13. Kc2 Qb3+ 14. Kc1 $14 {0.70/6}) (11... Kb5 12. Qd5 (12. Qg4 Ka5
13. Kc2 b5 14. Qf3 $14 {0.60/6}) (12. a3 Qe6 13. Qf3 Ka6 14. e4 $14 {0.69/6})
12... Qf4 13. Kc2 Qg4 14. Qf3 $16 {0.72/6}) (11... Qe8 12. Qd5 (12. Kc2 b5 13.
e4 Qe5 14. a3 $14 {0.58/6}) (12. a3 Qf7 13. Kc2 Qb3+ 14. Kc1 $14 {0.70/6})
12... Qg6 13. b4+ axb3 14. axb3 $16 {0.80/6}) (11... Qe7 12. Qa8+ (12. Qd5 Qh7
13. Kc1 Qh6+ 14. Kc2 $14 {0.70/6}) (12. Kc2 b5 13. Qa8+ Kb6 14. e4 $14 {0.70/6}
) 12... Kb5 13. b3 Qd7+ 14. Kc2 $18 {3.07/6}) 12. Qd5 (12. Qg7 Kb6 13. Qg6+ Ka5
14. Qd6 $14 {0.52/6}) (12. Qb7 c4 13. Qf3 Qe5 14. Kc2 $14 {0.57/6}) 12... Qf2
13. Qd8+ Ka6 14. Qc8+ $14 {0.67/6}) 11... Qe7 (11... Qe8 12. Qf3 (12. Qg4 Qe7
13. Qf3 Qe6 14. Kb1 $14 {0.68/6}) (12. e4 Qe6 13. a3 Qb3+ 14. Kc1 $14 {0.70/6})
12... b5 13. e4 Qg6 14. a3 $16 {0.80/6}) (11... Qe6 12. b3 (12. a3 b5 13. e4
Qb3+ 14. Kc1 $14 {0.70/6}) (12. Kb1 Qd7 13. Qa8+ Kb5 14. Qh1 $14 {0.60/6})
12... axb3+ 13. axb3 Kb5 14. e4 $16 {0.83/6}) (11... Kb5 12. b3 (12. Qf3 Qe6
13. Kb1 Qg8 14. a3 $16 {0.76/6}) (12. Qg4 Ka5 13. Qf3 Qe6 14. a3 $14 {0.70/6})
12... axb3+ 13. axb3 Qe6 14. e4 $16 {0.83/6}) (11... b5 12. Kb1 (12. Qf3 Qe6
13. Kb1 Kb6 14. e4 $14 {0.61/6}) (12. Qa8+ Kb6 13. Qd8+ Kc6 14. Qf6+ $14 {0.60/
6}) 12... b4 13. Qa8+ Kb5 14. Qb7+ $16 {0.85/6}) 12. Qa8+ (12. b3 b5 13. Qa8+
Kb6 14. e4 $14 {0.61/6}) (12. Qf3 Qe6 13. a3 Qb3+ 14. Kc1 $16 {0.71/6}) (12. a3
) (12. e4) 12... Kb5 13. c4+ Kxc4 14. Qxa4+ $16 {0.79/6} *

FEN at the end of the interesting line that gives black a drawing chance

8/8/1p6/k1p5/p7/2P1q3/PP2P1Q1/2K5 w - - 0 11

Diagram

Imho, the overcomplication lacks beauty.

I like complications, but here, therer are just too many lines, and brain asplode

[RoundTower]

I would think White is winning in that position, with the extra passed pawn and good prospects to advance it while keeping his king away from checks.

I don't think a study having a complicated sideline detracts from the beauty, but if this position is forced, that is simply a dual.

[cashgomer]

My understanding, tho third hand is that this is a Russian circa 1980, and a prizewinner. Obv no bots back then, but 2...g2 etc. is so obv.

Seems more likely that it is not cooked, but that endgame is beyond me, (would prolly be torture to be black tho) and maybe there is something so obscene before that, that the computers don't see it, tho I have no clue what that might be.

Will update, if I find the original source or more analysis etc....

[Cadaz]

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

Oh wow, this is sick, I think I got it after all. Lemme re-check because this is almost too sick to be true!

Hmm I got as far as 1.e7 then realised why it's so difficult lol

[cashgomer]

Meh the solution just claims Qg1 is a technical win for white.

Can be found here. Just search the page for the composer Dorogov.

[RoundTower]

oh wait, this is an alternative for Black, not for White. so it's fine. It's like you wouldn't think less of the Saavedra study because Black has the option to play on for 20 moves with R against Q instead of entering the main line.