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02-10-2014 , 09:24 PM
so, uh...

Spoiler:
1. Bc2! 1-0. White has a winning attack.
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02-10-2014 , 10:00 PM
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I gave up and peeked at the computer. solution is awesome but now I feel I should have got it
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02-10-2014 , 10:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundTower
Spoiler:
I gave up and peeked at the computer. solution is awesome but now I feel I should have got it
Spoiler:
My computer is listing three different lines as equal (all evaluating at exactly 0.00) at depth 20. Houdini 1.5. How deep does it have to go to find a clear solution?

Edit: The answer is depth 21, lol.

Edit 2: What the **** are these moves I don't even...
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02-10-2014 , 11:48 PM
Okay, I was having trouble sleeping ( perhaps my subconscious was working on the position )...

Spoiler:


I didn't move any pieces ( except in my head; had the position etched in memory ) so my guess is:

my line as before but 3. Ke1 Re4+ 4. Kf2 Rf4+ 5. Ke3 Rf6 6. Qxg6+ Rxg6 7. Kd4 etc. and now there is a winning pawn ending; there's a lot of little details like 4...Re2+ 5. Kf3 Rf2+ 6. Qxf2 etc.


Last edited by mangler241; 02-10-2014 at 11:56 PM.
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02-11-2014 , 01:18 AM
Okay, I basically got it after a few hours....

Spoiler:


1. Ba4!! ( the point is to get the c5 square for the Queen! ) b5 2. fg6+ Qxg6 3. Bc2 Rxf4+ 4. Kg1 Rf6 5. Qg5! Rxe6 6. Kf1 Rf6+ 7. Ke1 8. Re6+ Kd1 9. Rd6+ Kc1 10. Rc6 Qc5! etc.

I was led astray by all those drawn pawn endings...

EDIT: looked at RoundTower's attempt; yeah, I think if he persisted, he would have found the same line.

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02-11-2014 , 03:17 AM
Spoiler:
Awesome tries everyone! A couple people were very close and mangler got it!

RT, that's exactly how I felt when I was shown the solution

To me, the most fun comes from the actual process of trying to solve this, not the solution itself.

So naturally you begin with the obvious fxg6+. You discount Qxg6 at first sight, because hey, Bc2. You check Kxh6, you see that it's winning. You check Kg8, you see that it's easily winning too. You start questioning your sanity. Kh8? No way? Just for the sake of it you check Kh8 and feel a little bit ashamed. Back to square 1 - why is this such a hard etude if white wins in a couple moves in all the lines? You realize that you are looking for something as black. There is nothing in Kh6 and Kg8 lines.. ok, let's put that black queen on g6 for a bit.. Ooh, Rf4+! Maybe it is something. OK, but Ke1 just wins easily! Aaaaah, Re4+. OK, but then Kg1 instead of Ke1 wins easily! Aaaah, Rf6.. God damnit.

So, you are sitting at the position after 1. fxg6 Qxg6 2. Bc2 Rxf4+ 3. Kg1 Rf6. You are three moves deep but it seems like you started ages ago. What is happening in this position? All the pawn endgames are drawn/lost. You triple check that and start going dizzy. Uuugh, I DON'T UNDERSTAND ANYTHING! We couldn't have made a mistake earlier, this HAS to be the position. (10 minutes later) OK so I think we have to escape to the queenside with the king, there is nothing else to do in this ****ING ****TY POSITION. But Black is always threatening Kxh6, we absolutely can't give it up. Hm, I guess 4. Qg5 looks good then. Okay, we are maybe making progress. 4.. Rxe6 seems the only move, 5.Kf1 Rf6+ 6. Ke1 Re6+ 7. Kd1 Rd6+ 8. Kc1 WE DID IT BABY. Oh wait... 8...Rc6... God ****ing damnit.

So now you feel with your entire heart that you are stumbling somewhere close. You start backtracking one move at a time and see that there is just nothing there. Nowhere. WHERE is that damn mistake? You have removed basically everything possible by process of elimination. And to quote Arthur Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes: "when you remove the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, is the truth". And this is exactly when you have to come up with 1. Ba4 to force the b6 pawn to b5, so that in that long main line you have 10. Qc5 after Rc6. I don't think it is possible to solve this without agonizing over those other lines for at least some time

Anyway, props to everyone who have tried, some very interesting and fun lines.
Hope you enjoyed it!

Last edited by YouKnowWho; 02-11-2014 at 03:27 AM. Reason: wrapped it up in a Spoiler just in case.
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02-11-2014 , 08:08 AM
Spoiler:
Yeah I think on another day I see the ba4 idea first, so it's always in my mind that I can play the position with the pawn on b6 or b5. (it did cross my mind that maybe it needed to be there so some pawn ending is winning). Instead I spent time fruitlessly wondering how to get the WHITE pawn to b5
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02-11-2014 , 11:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mangler241
Okay, I basically got it after a few hours....

Spoiler:


1. Ba4!! ( the point is to get the c5 square for the Queen! ) b5 2. fg6+ Qxg6 3. Bc2 Rxf4+ 4. Kg1 Rf6 5. Qg5! Rxe6 6. Kf1 Rf6+ 7. Ke1 8. Re6+ Kd1 9. Rd6+ Kc1 10. Rc6 Qc5! etc.

I was led astray by all those drawn pawn endings...

EDIT: looked at RoundTower's attempt; yeah, I think if he persisted, he would have found the same line.


snap! as soon as u said it i c. WP mangler
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02-12-2014 , 07:27 PM
mangler - did you see that without ever moving the pieces? That is pretty deep... what is your rating?

I can't believe how strong you guys are, it's very impressive.
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02-12-2014 , 08:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkD
mangler - did you see that without ever moving the pieces? That is pretty deep... what is your rating?

I can't believe how strong you guys are, it's very impressive.
I don't have a chessboard, so without moving the pieces, but that's not very impressive when just about any IM/GM can too.

It's actually not that deep since the main ideas ought to be found in the line: 1. fxg6+ Qxg6 2. Bc2 ( seems like an obvious candidate ) Rxf4+! 3. Kg1 Rf6!. I also mentioned that it took awhile; ~ two hours, so that's not exactly something to "write home about!". For me, the difficulty was finding Qg5 ( which isn't hard in retrospect since ...Kxh6 is a threat ).

I'm not even a titled player, but in my younger days ( more than a decade ago ) I did have a peak blitz rating on ICC between 2600 and 2700. I've obviously lost some ability, but having looked at thousands of endgame studies ( went through a lot of Kasparyan's studies ) helps.

RoundTower was close to finding the solution and IIRC, he is not a titled player either. I suppose that someone who is ~2000+ should have some reasonable chance of finding the solution in less time than 2 hours.

Last edited by mangler241; 02-12-2014 at 08:23 PM.
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02-12-2014 , 08:36 PM
Quote:
And to quote Arthur Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes: "when you remove the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, is the truth".
Lol every time I or my friends show a study or another puzzle, this phrase comes out. Great way to troll people who think you are about to give them a hint.

But yeah I had the exact same experience you describe, every move of it rings a bell.
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02-13-2014 , 12:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mangler241
I don't have a chessboard, so without moving the pieces, but that's not very impressive when just about any IM/GM can too.

It's actually not that deep since the main ideas ought to be found in the line: 1. fxg6+ Qxg6 2. Bc2 ( seems like an obvious candidate ) Rxf4+! 3. Kg1 Rf6!. I also mentioned that it took awhile; ~ two hours, so that's not exactly something to "write home about!". For me, the difficulty was finding Qg5 ( which isn't hard in retrospect since ...Kxh6 is a threat ).

I'm not even a titled player, but in my younger days ( more than a decade ago ) I did have a peak blitz rating on ICC between 2600 and 2700. I've obviously lost some ability, but having looked at thousands of endgame studies ( went through a lot of Kasparyan's studies ) helps.

RoundTower was close to finding the solution and IIRC, he is not a titled player either. I suppose that someone who is ~2000+ should have some reasonable chance of finding the solution in less time than 2 hours.
I admire the modesty in this post, but saying that it isn't impressive because "any IM/GM can do it" misses the point of what is or isn't impressive, in my humble Class Player opinion

Also, you emphasize that it took you two hours as an argument for why it's less impressive that you pulled it off without a board - but that means you were able to spend two full hours analyzing a position in your head without losing track of the lines you were considering. That just boggles my mind - I highly doubt I could analyze anything for more than ten minutes before it all became just a jumbled mess where I remembered nothing I'd looked at. So yeah, I officially grant you permission to write home
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02-20-2014 , 09:55 AM
easy but cute:
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02-20-2014 , 02:29 PM
Spoiler:
bc6 be8 nd5 nf4. Cute
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02-20-2014 , 02:31 PM
Spoiler:
whoops maybe that doesn't win. So bc6 kf7 nd5!
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02-20-2014 , 03:20 PM
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ok if black doesn't go f7 we get the first line, but the ending is winning. But then there is a nasty dual, so am I missing something...
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02-20-2014 , 05:29 PM
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the first try is correct, guess the dual on move 2 if black goes kf7 isn't that terrible
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02-20-2014 , 07:29 PM
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what's the purpose of the a-pawns?

I'm not usually a study purist, despite how it must sound here, but it's often fascinating to see a detail in a study why an irrelevant-looking piece had to be there. Here they don't seem to make a difference.
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02-21-2014 , 03:02 AM
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bleh they're unnecessary. I lift these from chess.com tactics trainer when I come across good ones. They way the trainer works is that Black makes a move and then it's your turn. Guess whoever added this tactic fudged with the original in order to make a7-a6 Black's first move
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04-14-2014 , 10:06 AM
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04-24-2014 , 05:45 PM
Spoiler:
okay I'll lead a little: 1.Rf5+ Kg6 (1.-Ke6 2.Re5+ or 2.h3 win eventually) and now?
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05-16-2014 , 02:47 AM
Prehistory:
Spoiler:
Inspired by Rei Ayanami's joke about chess with 16 queens on each side, I tried to run a game between engines (two Houdinis 1.5a) - with one king on each side because otherwise there would be no mate opportunity - but alas they kept making illegal moves, confusing queens for knights, trying to castle etc.

However, one of my attempts, when I left knights and rooks as they were, replacing only bishops and pawns by queens in the initial position, led to a interesting spot. (The beginning of the game was -4. Qdd4 Nf6 -3. Nc3 Qdd5 -2. Qcf4 Qee6 -1. Qee3 Qfd6 0. Nf3 O-O??, and White saw no tactics and proceeded with 1. Qfd3?! Qdxf4 and tried to make an illegal move - Qexf4, forgetting that the pieces on e3 and e6 were queens, not pawns, and the e3 queen was pinned, by which it terminated the game.)

It is White to move.



(Disclaimer: I can't affirm the uniqueness and correctness of the first move and consequent ideas; there are definitely many winning sequences beyond the first move in some variations. I had to analyse manually because engines can't handle 11-queen positions without bugs. I have my solution written down but want to let you try to figure it out for a while before I post it here.)

Edit: lmao, it's too easy. I have to tweak it a bit to make it as complicated as was supposed to

Last edited by coon74; 05-16-2014 at 02:57 AM.
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05-16-2014 , 03:21 AM
OK, tweaked White to move.


Last edited by coon74; 05-16-2014 at 03:50 AM. Reason: slight change to the diagram
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05-16-2014 , 05:47 AM
Derp, Black has too much counterplay here and wins, forget it... I'll waste no more time on tweaking it...
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05-20-2014 , 05:41 AM
****: thanks for the queen blundering exercises
I guess the one I posted above was too hard, the main line goes
Spoiler:
1.Rf5+ Kg6 2.h4 Bf2 3.h5+ Kh6 4.Kf3 Bh4 5.Re5 e2 6.Rxe2 Kxh5 7.Rh2 Kg5 8.Rh1 and the bishop is trapped

here's a more straightforward one
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