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Chess article linked from ESPN.com Chess article linked from ESPN.com

09-12-2012 , 03:14 PM
I was surprised to see this on the front page of ESPN. It links to another site outside of ESPN, but any publicity for chess is a good thing. It's about that cheating incident from not too long ago.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...cheating-chess
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09-13-2012 , 09:03 AM
This garnered a lot of discussion on a sports journalism forum I frequent. First, it's a great write. Second, it's an interesting debate as to whether it's "fair" for a "mistake" made before the age of 18 to haunt a kid like that, because that article will now appear very high on the google search of his name for a very long time.

My opinion on the matter should be clear from the scare quotes
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09-13-2012 , 09:16 AM
i can't help but thinking who on earth would allow something like an electronic scoresheet on a hand-held computer in the first place. And threatening the kid with a lifetime ban is beyond horrible.

Pretty good article (i can live with stuff like "former grandmaster") but wtf is the Kevitz variation? I probably classify as "pawnhead" and the QGD is my favourite opening, but i've never heard of that.
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09-13-2012 , 09:50 AM
Yeah "former grandmaster" caught my eye too, sick burn on Biyasis
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09-13-2012 , 09:56 AM
Agree with both that a lifetime ban for a mistake in his youth is pretty terrible. Far too harsh.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who had never heard of the Kevitz variation of the QGD. Phew.

This was a very well-written article, much better than most chess stuff you'll see in the media, but I can't help but laugh at some of the stuff only chess nerds like us would have a problem with. Here are a few from that article.

1) Kevitz variation of the QGD
2) "Smiley had Moore in check after 16 moves and never let up." As if the faster you have your opponent in check, the better you are.
3) "former Grandmaster"
4) Calling Ruth Haring an IM. She's a WIM and currently rated 1900 USCF. Yikes.

Also hilarious to me that anyone can believe the kid's story about only cheating in that one game, despite the fact that he went 41-3-2 in the 46 games leading up to that tournament.
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09-13-2012 , 09:59 AM
comparison to fischer due to that streak was a little over the top though
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09-13-2012 , 10:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wlrs
comparison to fischer due to that streak was a little over the top though
It was only the coach that compared it; the article even says "hey its just junior chess".

The real question to me is why someone would pay $50 for an electronic scorebook unless it was to cheat.
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09-13-2012 , 10:42 AM
the question is still why would someone allow it? The only reason i can think of is an affiliation to someone who makes $50/piece for selling them but maybe that's the US "bring your own stuff" chess culture.

i still can't believe how this boy out of nowhere goes onto a 50-game streak before someone suspects his electronic assistant.

and lol at the dude creating a federation "only for honest players".
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09-13-2012 , 10:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punker
It was only the coach that compared it; the article even says "hey its just junior chess".
oops just glanced over the article
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09-13-2012 , 12:29 PM
I think a lot of people suspected. But it's hard to come forward and prove it/
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09-13-2012 , 03:17 PM
wow. this is the first time in like 5 years that i haven't helped direct that tournament. i remember seeing quentin in scholastics when he was in elementary school. the other kid is a completely new name that i've never seen before.

i guess i picked a good year to take a break.
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09-14-2012 , 01:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punker
It was only the coach that compared it; the article even says "hey its just junior chess".

The real question to me is why someone would pay $50 for an electronic scorebook unless it was to cheat.
I would and I suspect an increasingly large number of players will.

I learned how the pieces move on the computer and have played some odd 99% of my chess on a computer screen. My level of play drops when I play over the board simply because the pieces are a handicap. Imagine instead of chess pieces you were using various geometric objects like one of the artsy piece sets. Same game, but internally and subconsciously there's some sort of processing going on changing those pieces into what you are used to and that has a detrimental impact on your game.

The electronic score books not only enable you to upload your games into your database more easily but also provide a 2d display of the board in progress. I assume this 2d preference also applies even to some GMs as more than a few times I've walked by a game and seen the players staring at the display board of their own game!

That said somebody needs to develop a very simple piece of hardware that does nothing but record scores, provide a display and have a USB slot to transfer the stored games. The monroi is ridiculously overpriced and obviously anything running on a generic computer like a palmtop is susceptible to modification and ultimately cheating.
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09-14-2012 , 02:03 AM
If you can save the files electronically and then plug the pgn into a computer afterwards it becomes a very valuable tool for keeping score and analysing games afterwards, so I can see why people would buy it. Much easier than having a loose scoresheet.

Lifetime ban is harsh but he should at least be banned from winning prizes for the next x years given that he essentially "robbed" honest players.

It's weird that his coach never noticed anything.. I mean if he teaches the kid all the time and sees his true skill level he should think something is off when the kid goes and plays perfectly in every important match.
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09-14-2012 , 03:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Do it Right
That said somebody needs to develop a very simple piece of hardware that does nothing but record scores, provide a display and have a USB slot to transfer the stored games. The monroi is ridiculously overpriced and obviously anything running on a generic computer like a palmtop is susceptible to modification and ultimately cheating.
To be fair to MonRoi, cost-effective low volume production is not easy at all and I have a feeling they have not done it right
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09-14-2012 , 04:03 AM
maybe i'm just horribly nostalgic but to me a paper scoresheet is just part of the game...
it's also funny to see the handwriting of players degrade over the course of a game. I would think that it would also cost much more time writing down the moves electronically, not good for time scrambles or the currently fashionable 30sec/move chess.

The only real advantage of an electronic scoresheet would be for me if it automatically added time stamps to the moves, which would indeed be awesome.
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09-14-2012 , 07:52 AM
Lol at those handheld scoresheet things
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09-14-2012 , 07:56 AM
I put clark smiley into google. First hit was a background check site called instantcheckmate.com, lol
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09-16-2012 , 06:00 PM
lol that electronic notetaking is even allowable. There's literally no defensible reason for it, and this is why. I generally consider people who are interested and involved with chess to be reasonably intelligent, but this article reads like Keystone Cops. But maybe I'm just a cynic. This kid should be banned for an egregiously long time, if not life. Your age has nothing to do with trustworthiness in a competitive endeavor, especially when kids are getting GM at like 14.
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09-20-2012 , 09:15 PM
Interesting article to see on Grantland.

I never liked electronic notetaking from the first time I saw it in play.

Lifetime ban is also over the top. Perhaps a ban until age 18 or 21 is better.
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09-21-2012 , 01:11 AM
I don't really think a lifetime ban is so crazy. In all reality I also think he should be facing criminal charges - his cheating is directly costing other players money. If we were in a poker tourney in Nevada, for instance - his actions would be a felony.

If the consequences aren't rather drastic then cheating at chess is a big freeroll for most players. There are routinely 5-figure prizes in class sections at a number of major tournaments. That's one hell of an incentive for cheating especially when the consequences are so marginal.

Even in this case, the link provided on the article seems to show that the cheater went from ~1200 rated to almost 1900 rated purely through cheating. He probably couldn't care less if he could never play in a USCF event again. What's to discourages others from following his footsteps aside from the all so steady moral compass of just pubescent teenagers?
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09-21-2012 , 04:16 AM
"it cost someone else money" isn't a suffcient argument for invoking draconic punishment. One minor case of shoplifting probably costs someone more money than the incident described.

Discouraging computer cheating is fairly easy btw...just forbid electronic devices in the playing hall. Of course you could think of elaborate french-olympic-team style cheating schemes but overall i'd say chess is pretty "clean" compared to any other sport where doping is an issue. For which, incidentally, no one ever faces a lifetime ban as a first-time offender.

If cheating is an issue mainly at class sections, maybe 5-figure prizes awarded solely based on rating is the cheating incentive that should be blamed?
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09-21-2012 , 10:04 AM
I don't think the comparison to doping is pertinent at all. With steroids and such it's still you playing the game. You can be the strongest man in the world but it's still up to you to hit the ball. If you're already good it will certainly make you better, but it's still you. In chess cheating the player need not be involved whatsoever and simply works as a medium for the computer to operate through.

A tiny ear piece and basic transmitter aren't exactly James Bond style technology now a days. Cheating is only going to become a bigger and bigger issue in the game and so I think it's simply a good idea to nip it in the bud - hard - before it gets out of hand. It's certainly not relegated to just class events. GM Pablo Zarnicki, for instance, has been banned from multiple online events for cheating.

The reason for the draconian punishment is solely as a deterrent. It's unfortunate that for some people that still won't be enough (both for them and for other players) but right now there is practically no extrinsic deterrent for anybody who isn't strongly interested in chess to go on a cheating rampage. Cheating in one small event is enough to recoup the costs of the hardware involved, everything from then on out is pure profit with no meaningful potential consequences.
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09-21-2012 , 11:42 AM
lol @ criminal charges.
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09-23-2012 , 07:49 PM
No to criminal charges, yes to lifetime ban. Though I don't think criminal charges are laughworthy. I don't appreciate being defrauded out of things that are important to me, whether it be money or competitive chess games.

Of course banning electronic devices would be ideal, but organizers don't want to do anything to stand up to the players, because attendance is shaky enough as it is.
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09-23-2012 , 10:16 PM
From the first time I ever saw a Monroi at a tournament I've been mad that these things are allowed.
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