Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
What is white's plan? What is white's plan?

12-19-2009 , 01:50 AM


Here's a common sort of position that can occur in a ton of different openings. Something that's important here is that white only has one really good plan. Black's position looks awkward, but can come to life very quickly with something like c5 if white doesn't get it in gear soon. So what's white's plan? What's the best way to carry it out?
What is white's plan? Quote
12-19-2009 , 02:50 AM
so i know i suck but...

blacks position is cramped, but white doesnt have a whole lot of room to maneuver either. both bishops are blocked in, and the knights have no good squares. whites plan should be to activate his pieces and get some action on the kingside. my first idea is g4, then moves like nf3, qh5, etc.
What is white's plan? Quote
12-19-2009 , 03:20 AM
I suck too - of course

basically you have a locked center and a pawn chain pointing for a kingside attack - I'd start with Nf3 and throw everything I got at a kingside attack - reminds me a bit of a KIA - take out h7 asap and even bring f rook into picture if need be - sacrifice to take out a pawn or two and try for a fast mate?

I'd start with getting a knight on g5, of which Nf3 will be of paramount help in doing this
What is white's plan? Quote
12-19-2009 , 03:31 AM
It is pretty clear that g4 is the best (only?) idea, but the interesting question is what is the best way to carry it out. I cannot decide between two concepts:

1) Kh1-Rg1-g4-gxf5-Nf3-N(most likely h)g5 etc. etc.

or

2) g4-g5 (after he plays g6, which he pretty much has to)-Kf2-Rh1-Ng1-Nf3-Nf1-Ng3-h4-h5-Nh4 etc. etc.

In a game I would most likely just play Kh1 and Rg1, seems more solid and gives an advantage for sure, but I have a knack that g4-g5-Kf2 might be more decisive.
What is white's plan? Quote
12-19-2009 , 04:03 PM
kh1 and rg1 feels like "this must be the right plan" to me
What is white's plan? Quote
12-20-2009 , 01:23 PM
What's the downside to being super aggressive?

Eg- Move your queen to have h5, then knight to g5. he hasta take that with his bishop, and then you can advance your pawn to g5.
What is white's plan? Quote
12-20-2009 , 01:24 PM
IMO there are many ways to play this position with White. Black has no counterplay.

I like 1.g4 g6 2.gxf5 exf5 (2...gxf5? 3.Qh5 should win for White. He'll follow up with Nf3, Kh1, Rg1, Be3 and so on.) 3.Nf3 best. White has a lasting advantage with the protected passed pawn on e5 and his pressure on the half open g-file.

1.Qh5 is not bad either. The idea is to play 2.Nf3 and Ng5 to provoke h6. Then g4 would have decisive force. Black should play something like 1...Qd7 2.Nf3 g6 3.Qh6 Nd8 4.Nhg5 Bxg5 5.Nxg5 Qg7 6.Qh4 with a solid advantage for White. Black will miss his dark squared bishop dearly.

But moves like 1.Kh1 and 1.Nf3 won't spoil anything and a sadistic player might even grab space on the Queen's wing with 1.b4!?. I know some club players who would get the idea 1.a4 to exchange the "bad" bishop c1 with 2.b3 and 3.Ba3. This would ease Black's task a bit.
What is white's plan? Quote
12-20-2009 , 02:51 PM
This is the sort of position you only need to see the main idea once and you're set for life, which is why I think it's also a very important type of position. The key idea here is for white to break with g4. How to do it is of course a much more specific matter. I don't think the specifics are too important, but the important thing is that you want it to come with threats as it is certainly a weakening move - perhaps not so important in this position, but in general.

In the actual game which was Alekhine - Dirnbaum (sim) 1910, Alekhine chose to play Nf3 before Kh1/Rg1. The game was over a dozen moves later with black's king taking a stroll before finally calling it quits.
What is white's plan? Quote
12-20-2009 , 03:04 PM
A really interesting tactic comes a few moves later in this position with white to move. What is white's best move?

What is white's plan? Quote
12-20-2009 , 11:40 PM
Is a quick g4 really White's only idea in this position? Why couldn't he play for a blockade of Black's queenside, and then pry open the kingside at his leisure?
What is white's plan? Quote
12-21-2009 , 12:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Discipline
Is a quick g4 really White's only idea in this position? Why couldn't he play for a blockade of Black's queenside, and then pry open the kingside at his leisure?
With g4 perhaps? The point is that white is going to play g2-g4 and attack the kingside at some point, right? Flicking in Nf3 or b4 or Kh1+Rg1 doesn't change that.
What is white's plan? Quote
12-21-2009 , 09:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by swingdoc
A really interesting tactic comes a few moves later in this position with white to move. What is white's best move?

I think Ng5 has some interesting implications
What is white's plan? Quote
12-21-2009 , 10:36 AM
haven't checked too thoroughly but f5 with the thread of Bxh6 looks immediately decisive to me. But in this position probably anything that isn't a major blunder wins.

1. f5 exf5 2. Bxh6 gxh6 3. Qxh6 Qh7 4. Rg8 is actually quite cute.

Last edited by Noir_Desir; 12-21-2009 at 10:39 AM. Reason: variation
What is white's plan? Quote
12-21-2009 , 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noir_Desir
haven't checked too thoroughly but f5 with the thread of Bxh6 looks immediately decisive to me. But in this position probably anything that isn't a major blunder wins.

1. f5 exf5 2. Bxh6 gxh6 3. Qxh6 Qh7 4. Rg8 is actually quite cute.
Simply 3. Rxh6+ Kg8 4. Rh8+ and Qh7#; but I agree that 1. f5 looks best.
What is white's plan? Quote
12-21-2009 , 02:07 PM
I like the idea of 1. Bd2 with the idea 1...Nxd2 2. Rxh6 gh 3. Qxh6+ Kg8 4. Rg1+ Kf7 5. Bg6+ Ke7 6. Qg7+ and mates.
What is white's plan? Quote
12-21-2009 , 03:24 PM
Doesn't 1. c6 win at least a piece?
What is white's plan? Quote
12-21-2009 , 03:28 PM
And the best response to 1. f5 is obviously Nxe5, not exf5. Too lazy to calculate what happens after Nxe5 though, but I think black should be able to defend
What is white's plan? Quote
12-21-2009 , 04:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YouKnowWho
Doesn't 1. c6 win at least a piece?
Yes, much simpler!
What is white's plan? Quote
12-22-2009 , 08:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YouKnowWho
And the best response to 1. f5 is obviously Nxe5, not exf5. Too lazy to calculate what happens after Nxe5 though, but I think black should be able to defend
i though fxe6 won on the spot after Nxe5.
What is white's plan? Quote

      
m