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Old 02-23-2012, 06:55 AM   #1
centurion
 
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Strange cube take, explanation needed



White doubles, should black take?

Hi all, I was shocked when this position arose in a recent game between me and snowie.

Sorry for the small picture, hope it's clear.

He offered me the cube in tha position and I quickly passed. I have a awful position, and soon I will be very behind in the race and I'm on the bar and snowie is about to bring down some builders from the midpoint to keep me behind.

I didn't use the prat rule (Sylvester's rule), I assumed that this was similar to a blitzing position where white has a very good board and I no position at all.

Rolling out the position 3-ply it's a huge take for snowie but I couldn't understand why.

Can someone give an explanation?

Many thanks in advance
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:03 AM   #2
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Re: Strange cube take, explanation needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fllecha View Post


White doubles, should black take?

Hi all, I was shocked when this position arose in a recent game between me and snowie.

Sorry for the small picture, hope it's clear.

He offered me the cube in tha position and I quickly passed. I have a awful position, and soon I will be very behind in the race and I'm on the bar and snowie is about to bring down some builders from the midpoint to keep me behind.

I didn't use the prat rule (Sylvester's rule), I assumed that this was similar to a blitzing position where white has a very good board and I no position at all.

Rolling out the position 3-ply it's a huge take for snowie but I couldn't understand why.

Can someone give an explanation?

Many thanks in advance
Nothing awful about your position at all. You have your 5-point with three White men behind it. You don't have any dead checkers, and no more outfield blots. White has no builders and can't hit you again for a couple of turns. If indeed you had no position, it probably would be a pass, but that's not the case.
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Old 02-23-2012, 10:10 AM   #3
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Re: Strange cube take, explanation needed

Yep. I don't see a horrible position here. For me what makes it ok for you is the fact that you have some nice timing to play a 3 point holding game and he will take about 2 or 3 rolls to actually get some builders down/ safety his back-checkers.
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Old 02-23-2012, 12:01 PM   #4
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Re: Strange cube take, explanation needed

One more question: if I had, say, 1 blot in the outfield is a pass? And if my opponent has only 2 man back instead of 3 that is still a take?

Thanks
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Old 02-23-2012, 12:34 PM   #5
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Re: Strange cube take, explanation needed

What if, from the original position, you take White's outfield blot and one midpoint checker and make the ace-point, thus giving White a 5-pt board?
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Old 02-24-2012, 06:48 AM   #6
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Re: Strange cube take, explanation needed

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Originally Posted by uberkuber View Post
What if, from the original position, you take White's outfield blot and one midpoint checker and make the ace-point, thus giving White a 5-pt board?
In that case it's a solid pass. Analyzing the position I discovered that if:

a) white in the original position has some builders (eg on the 15-16 point and no white blot) it's a marginal take/pass for

b) if in the original position black has the backman on the ace point it's still a take for black

c) It is still a take even in white man on black 24 point covers the blot on the 11 point.

d) Nothing changes if white's board is better, that is he owns his 6-5-4-3 point, is always a take.

Summarizing: it's almost always a take. The only clear passes are when white owns one more inner point or white has no blot and a lot of builders.

That's still shocking for me btw
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Old 02-24-2012, 09:03 AM   #7
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Re: Strange cube take, explanation needed

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Originally Posted by Fllecha View Post
That's still shocking for me btw
It shouldn't be. You're not taking the huge swing from Black owning his 5-point into account. Set up the position with Black's 5-point checkers back on the 6-point and 8-point and watch what happens.

In evaluating most positions, all features matter.
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