Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > General Gambling > Backgammon

Notices

Backgammon Discussion of anything related to backgammon: strategy, problems, books, clubs, and tournaments.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-01-2012, 08:37 PM   #1
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 52
Learning the backgame

Hi all,

I have a major problem learning to play a backgame. I have only tried it a couple of times in live play, and they have both been massive failures. Now, whenever I get multiple checkers back, my opponent usually offers the cube and I decline because I don't have confidence to pull off a proper backgame.

For practice, I use GNU, but it seems to have no backgame engine and makes poor evals.

Where should I start? What is a good way to learn / practice this important part of the game?
teddosan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2012, 10:51 PM   #2
adept
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 931
Re: Learning the backgame

Quote:
Originally Posted by teddosan View Post
Hi all,

I have a major problem learning to play a backgame. I have only tried it a couple of times in live play, and they have both been massive failures. Now, whenever I get multiple checkers back, my opponent usually offers the cube and I decline because I don't have confidence to pull off a proper backgame.

For practice, I use GNU, but it seems to have no backgame engine and makes poor evals.

Where should I start? What is a good way to learn / practice this important part of the game?
The book "Backgammon for Serious Players" has a number of backgames and other complex games in their entirety with explanations of what's going on.

Both Snowie and Extreme Gammon play back games well and would make good practice opponents.
Robertie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2012, 01:33 AM   #3
journeyman
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Henderson, NV
Posts: 278
Re: Learning the backgame

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertie View Post
The book "Backgammon for Serious Players" has a number of backgames and other complex games in their entirety with explanations of what's going on.

Both Snowie and Extreme Gammon play back games well and would make good practice opponents.
Hey, Bill, who wrote that one
RolldUpTrips is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2012, 08:35 AM   #4
adept
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 931
Re: Learning the backgame

Quote:
Originally Posted by RolldUpTrips View Post
Hey, Bill, who wrote that one
Some old-timer -- I forget his name.
Robertie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 10:03 PM   #5
journeyman
 
higonefive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Germany, lower saxony
Posts: 294
Re: Learning the backgame

"Every backgame is different.

I say that because we have a tendancy to lump all backgames together when really every single backgame is a different type of game. The player playing the backgame and the player playing against the backgame will have different goals depending on what backgame you're in. ...

Every backgame is the same.

There are a couple different things I mean by this. The first thing is stay alert and make sure you consider all possible plays. Until you're comfortable with backgames there are some plays that will be blindingly correct that you may not have even considered OtB. ...

...With real estate it's location, location, location and with backgames it's timing, timing, timing. Think about that every play you make. Another common element you'll find when playing against backgames, especially middle to deeper backgames, is that slotting key points is almost automatic...."

Stick Rice, Introduction to Backgames, 25 November 2011 @gammonvillage
higonefive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 11:40 AM   #6
journeyman
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 319
Re: Learning the backgame

I have been using GNU for a few weeks and made the assumption that it's 'hints' were always the best play. Bad assumption?
dealace1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 11:46 AM   #7
newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 47
Re: Learning the backgame

Quote:
Originally Posted by dealace1 View Post
I have been using GNU for a few weeks and made the assumption that it's 'hints' were always the best play. Bad assumption?
Make sure to set up hint (Options - Analyze) to make 2-ply, "World Class", analysis.
miran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 12:45 PM   #8
journeyman
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 319
Re: Learning the backgame

Quote:
Originally Posted by miran View Post
Make sure to set up hint (Options - Analyze) to make 2-ply, "World Class", analysis.
Thank you. This game is more complex then I gave it credit for. I am getting hooked and might just order a couple of the books that are referenced in this forum. I find most of the advanced discussion here over my head, and that frustrates me. I need to at least get to the point where I can understand the lingo. It's one thing to have poor plays pointed out and learn to mimic the computer plays in common scenarios but quite another to understand the math behind why one play is marginally better than another.
dealace1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 02:23 PM   #9
veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,144
Re: Learning the backgame

I was showed a cool position once that was supposedly used to practice back games. I can't remember the exact position, but basically one side had about 6-7 men back and perfect timing. The other side had maybe a 5 prime in front of the back men and the other checkers were well placed.

Maybe someone else ITF knows the position? The idea is to play an otherwise normal game of BG, but starting from that position. Pretty cool idea IMO.
loveinvain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 02:29 PM   #10
adept
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 931
Re: Learning the backgame

Quote:
Originally Posted by loveinvain View Post
I was showed a cool position once that was supposedly used to practice back games. I can't remember the exact position, but basically one side had about 6-7 men back and perfect timing. The other side had maybe a 5 prime in front of the back men and the other checkers were well placed.

Maybe someone else ITF knows the position? The idea is to play an otherwise normal game of BG, but starting from that position. Pretty cool idea IMO.
This is an excellent way to learn backgames -- set up a typical position and play it out many times. You'll start to get a feel for ideas like timing and containment, and how important it is to play purely in backgames.
Robertie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 05:31 PM   #11
newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 47
Re: Learning the backgame

Quote:
Originally Posted by dealace1 View Post
Thank you. This game is more complex then I gave it credit for. I am getting hooked and might just order a couple of the books that are referenced in this forum. I find most of the advanced discussion here over my head, and that frustrates me. I need to at least get to the point where I can understand the lingo. It's one thing to have poor plays pointed out and learn to mimic the computer plays in common scenarios but quite another to understand the math behind why one play is marginally better than another.
I would recommend to start with Paul Magriel's "Backgammon", where you can learn about lingo and basic concepts.

Also, you can read many good articles on http://www.bkgm.com/articles/index.html for free.


Yes, the game is complex - give yourself enough time and don't expect miracles overnight.
miran is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive