Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
the big thread about cube decisions the big thread about cube decisions

07-02-2015 , 02:09 AM
I am not afraid. It is only 1 in 10 times or so, that you announce that you knew the right answer.
the big thread about cube decisions Quote
07-03-2015 , 05:12 AM
Position ID: HgAAKJsNoogYAA
Match ID: UqkAAAAAAAAE

White - Pips 57

Black - Pips 163
Black on roll. Cube action?
the big thread about cube decisions Quote
07-03-2015 , 06:39 AM
I will go with double/take, although I'm not sure on the take. We are fairly likely to get white dancing with 2 pips while we begin the bear-off, and if we reach that scenario, we are favoured to win. I fall short in being able to work out just how likely that is, but we have a large army of pips to get the job done with.
the big thread about cube decisions Quote
07-04-2015 , 12:50 PM
I have made a mistake. This was the original problem.
White - Pips 57

Black - Pips 159
Black on roll. Cube action?
Created with www.BGdiagram.com
Code:
Cube analysis 
Rollout cubeless equity  +0,458 

Cubeful equities: 
1. No double            +0,800 
2. Double, pass         +1,000  ( +0,200) 
3. Double, take         +0,761  ( -0,038) 
Proper cube action: No redouble, take
In this position (“501”, p.305) black has no double:


In the next position (“501”, p.306) white has a bare take:


Here the difference is also 9 checkers, but with two on the bar, and white still has a take. I don't see any marketloser, and I don't see any future double. Black has practically no chance to get a third checker, in the problem position white is not on the bar, and it is very possible white will escape a checker after a proper double or making a defensive point.

Everyone will agree that based on this reference position it is no double and a big take.

Giving black the uninterrupted homeboard:



Code:
Cube analysis
Rollout cubeless equity  +0,458

Cubeful equities:
1. No double            +0,799
2. Double, pass         +1,000  ( +0,201)
3. Double, take         +0,757  ( -0,043)
Proper cube action: No redouble, take

It will be more difficult for white to escape, and more important, he has a chance to get a third checker. I am surprised by the very small difference. But also here there is no market loser.
the big thread about cube decisions Quote
07-05-2015 , 06:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yogiman
Here the difference is also 9 checkers,
Luckily I do a reread. As a matter of fact I didn't pay attention to the 13, but "thought" I saw a difference of 9 checkers in Robertie's book. Still, it seems to me that the argument holds true.

I have more things on my mind besides the forum. On the one hand it is a welcome distraction, but sometimes it also is a weight.
the big thread about cube decisions Quote
07-05-2015 , 07:12 AM
I hope you mange to find the time to continue; these problems are great.
the big thread about cube decisions Quote
07-05-2015 , 08:59 AM
It was a small error (though stupid) error of mine, but with some consequence for black. Here is a later situation:


Code:
Cube analysis
Rollout cubeless equity  +0,565

Cubeful equities:
1. Double, pass         +1,000
2. Double, take         +1,028  ( +0,028)
3. No double            +0,938  ( -0,062)

Proper cube action: Redouble, pass
But see, it is also a small error to take.

In this variation black can't possibly get a third checker, and white has no delay by
absent 1's, 24 to 23 and vice versa:



Code:
Cube analysis
Rollout cubeless equity  +0,552

Cubeful equities:
1. Double, take         +0,993
2. Double, pass         +1,000  ( +0,007)
3. No double            +0,932  ( -0,061)
Proper cube action: Redouble, take
The difference is but very small. White has a borderline decision and black has a reasonable double in both positions.
the big thread about cube decisions Quote
07-06-2015 , 10:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yogiman
I am not afraid. It is only 1 in 10 times or so, that you announce that you knew the right answer.

that's because i don't look at all the positions in this thread, my world don't revolve around you and your thread, i actually have better things to do. I drop by from time to time. I happened to see that position itr was easy for me, i dont know why it just was, i'm not a great player, but i have a good moment or 2 now and then.


i appreciate what your doing here, but being a jack-off isn't going to help you in the long run, i'm smart enough to read between the lines, of your comments. It's good that your posting problems and solutions.


Now conduct yourself as a gentleman like Mr Robertie does, and you might really have something going here-no doubt the problems you have posted are good and your having some success. The little dig's "only comments once in a while" are not doing you any favors.


like i said, you can get played, i come to Europe 3-4 times a year, you got me. your stakes are my pleasure.


respectfully

Fatboy
the big thread about cube decisions Quote
07-07-2015 , 03:20 AM
Sorry, I am just poking fun at you, and I find it so boring to put a smiley everytime.

Only small stakes will do. You are 1000 times richer than I am, and it would not be fair if I am bothered by financial stress.
the big thread about cube decisions Quote
07-07-2015 , 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yogiman
Sorry, I am just poking fun at you, and I find it so boring to put a smiley everytime.

Only small stakes will do. You are 1000 times richer than I am, and it would not be fair if I am bothered by financial stress.

im sorry, i didnt realize that, i was sick over the weekend at a BG tourney, stuck in a shoe box room with no windows for fresh air i could open, was in a bad mood last night after a brutal flight home. not a excuse for what i said,

I do like your problems and i'll make a effort to participate more often, some will be after the answer, one thing you can count on 1000% if i'm wrong on a problem i will openly admit to being wrong, reason being is perhaps i'll learn why. Being right is fun, but has never helped me improve, only shows i remembered something from the past, i'm here to learn BG not a memory contest. So being wrong never bothers me(missing a makable shot in pool pisses me off, i learn nothing and still miss) being wrong in BG is good, chance to learn why. Therefore there is zero to ever be embarrassed about.


small stakes are fine, main this is to always have fun 1 euro/pt is fine with me, and i'll buy dinner too. I just like to play, and learn, talk about positions, etc.


again i'm sorry for what i said i misinterpreted your humor, reading it back i feel like a jack-off now, not the first time.

cheers

eric

PS theres a pool room over near the zoo in Amsterdam I go to when i'm there, i'm not sure exactly where your at but thats a great place to play. BG or pool. I also have a friend in Maastrich so I go there 1-2 times a year.
the big thread about cube decisions Quote
07-07-2015 , 12:39 PM
we are lucky that Karol Szczerek found 2plus2, he is a fine player, i have read lots of his posts on other sites and i can tell he is a SOLID player. And of course Mr Robertie who i finally had the pleasure of meeting for a brief moment in Detroit a couple days ago.

Having the access to Mr Roberite is very lucky for all of us as he is very generous with his time. I dont know Karol Szczerek-he popped up recently and posted some problems on another site, my interpretation based on his posts and one question he asked is he is a very good player. Much better than most of us here, its not a contest. I just mention it because i hope he stays as his posts are worthy of learning.
----------------------------------------------------------

GREAT NEWS:

Back to BG I bought 3 books that have 333 Cube Problems in each book. So now I have 999 new problems in my life-oh yay!!! Just what I needed more problems.

The good news is I have a friend staying here with me for a few days who is a Giant on the list of 32 in the world from 2013-I wont say who, but he is a monster. I picked him up last night and sorted out his bedroom etc.


I mentioned to him about my 999 new problems-the books i Bought in Novi at the tournament. He was very excited(i'm surehe knows the author of the set of books) and said they are great books and he has recently worked thru all 999 problems. Which stands to reason why he is on the top 32 list very near the top. He studies & plays full time.


What makes this good is he said he will help me get started with the books and pick some of the most important reference positions from the books. Of course i'm going to work thru all of the cube problems too. Any tips he gives me i'll share here.

I will enter the problems he suggests I learn, thematic problems into XG and email them to someone to post here(i dont know how to do all that computer stuff) that way we can all benefit.


This is a great chance for all of us to learn and learn the right problems which will teach us other similar positions. That was the conversation last night, he is here 5-6 days.

I met him at the Japan Open last year and we developed a great friendship, after the Open, we spent a few days sight seeing in Japan, BG aside he is a wonderful person to know, he showed us around Kyoto, spent time with my girlfriend teaching her about some Japanese culture. Was great

Last short side story, we went to a chicken restaurant for dinner, one guy owns the chicken farm and 2 or 3 restaurants where he sells the chicken he raises. One dish was raw chicken breast, believe me i know what everyone is thinking-so did I. When in Rome, do as the Romans, wow was it great-tasted like chicken-lol. yep i ate raw chicken.

Hopefully i'll have some good cube problems to share this week.

Best

Eric


i've been very lucky, too lucky in my life. i never take it for granted.

Last edited by TheRealFatboy; 07-07-2015 at 12:57 PM.
the big thread about cube decisions Quote
07-08-2015 , 03:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRealFatboy
, and i'll buy dinner too.
You're my man. I live a 15 minutes bike from your place. PM me.
the big thread about cube decisions Quote
07-08-2015 , 08:10 AM
Position ID: zt0GAFC2bQEIMg
Match ID: UQkAAAAAAAAE


White - Pips 108

Black - Pips 134
Black on roll. Cube action?
Created with www.BGdiagram.com
the big thread about cube decisions Quote
07-08-2015 , 01:07 PM
I'm not sure if it's a take or not (initially thought it was a take), so I double.
Now for the take, I'm always confused when there's so much volatility and gammon potential on each side. I think I would drop.

Double/Drop
the big thread about cube decisions Quote
07-09-2015 , 03:10 AM
In my ignorance, I am guessing that this could be a sneaky take. I'm thinking that white needs to dance here for a bit.
6-1 is great for white, the other nine 1's are very bad as he will have to crunch. So if white can avoid those 1's for maybe three rolls the positions might almost equalise.
On the other hand, if white throws any 1 except 6-1 he is most likely to be gammoned, and my head hurts trying to calculate what that does to the numbers.
I am fully expecting the opposite but I'll go with:

Redouble / Take
the big thread about cube decisions Quote
07-09-2015 , 06:33 AM
I think it must be redouble/drop, although, as always, I am uncertain! The reasons Kamba lists above are all pointing at a take, but it seems to me that black might have enough free play before he crunches, and therefore enough rolls to extricate his back men.
the big thread about cube decisions Quote
07-09-2015 , 09:36 AM
White - Pips 108

Code:
Cube analysis
Rollout cubeless equity  +0,544

Cubeful equities:
1. Double, take         +0,930
2. Double, pass         +1,000  ( +0,070)
3. No double            +0,842  ( -0,089)
Proper cube action: Redouble, take
Cube positions are not my hobby, but a necessary burden. I don't see everything, so I might need some help. The commentary for problem 27 is not complete.



This position was no double. We are not sure whether the white blots are good, bad or neutral, but let's assume the latter. What appears to be decisive is the third checker on the 24-point. Giving black little flexibility with two checkers on the 24-point:




Code:
Cube analysis
Rollout cubeless equity  +0,455

Cubeful equities:
1. No double            +0,661
2. Double, pass         +1,000  ( +0,339)
3. Double, take         +0,659  ( -0,002)
Proper cube action: No redouble, take

This is practically a double.

Everyone is welcome to refine the following rule of thumb (also for problem 27):
With these homeboards you should double if white has not more than 2 checkers on the 24-point and at least 1 checker on the 22-point.
the big thread about cube decisions Quote
07-16-2015 , 05:34 AM
Position ID: 220TAAHf9wAQAA
Match ID: UgkAAAAAAAAE

White - Pips 72

Black - Pips 42
Black on roll. Cube action?
Created with www.BGdiagram.com
the big thread about cube decisions Quote
07-16-2015 , 07:59 AM
This looks like double take to me. Black has a reasonable chance of sneaking past, in which case he must win. Should he roll one of the 28 throws that don't see him carry, white is in with a shot.

I would love to be able to add more analysis to this, but I can't see what else is required?
the big thread about cube decisions Quote
07-16-2015 , 08:37 AM
As a matter of fact this problem is to easy. So I make it somewhat more difficult.

I shift the black checker a little further up to the 13-point:




I pose the new problem:
Which double is stronger, this one or the former one.
the big thread about cube decisions Quote
07-16-2015 , 09:21 AM
Surely the second one must be a stronger double? Black has more chance of hopping over white and his other dice leave him closer to white, so less chance of getting hit if he doesn't throw an 8. Small dice and 7's give white a chance to hit back, so it must still be a take. I think.
the big thread about cube decisions Quote
07-16-2015 , 11:55 AM
This position is meant to be related to this thread. In a flabbergasted state of mind I mistakenly thought to see something in the rollouts, which is not present. Ofcourse the latter double is stronger, and I am surprised that it is actually a take. I think most players would pass this one, but that is a mistake of 0,13.

I did rollouts for the black checker from the 16-point to the 13-point. At the right is the strength of the take:

16-point___0,41
15-point___0,32
14-point___0,10
13-point___0,13

There is a sharp drop from the 15 to the 14-point, and I am not sure why this is so.
the big thread about cube decisions Quote
07-17-2015 , 03:57 AM
I hoped with help of you guys to shed some light on the cube-efficiency riddle of problem 44, but I have made things only muddier. So forget the above posts, it's better they are deleted. I should have prepared myself well, considering the number of viewers here, but I spent also a lot of energy on the other thread, and it was unwise of me to go on while I am tired.
It's about this position:
White - Pips 76

Black - Pips 50
Black to Play 4-3
Code:
18/14 8/5                    Eq.:  +0,511
       0,616 0,002 0,000 - 0,384 0,012 0,000 CL  +0,221 CF  +0,511
 
18/15 8/4                    Eq.:  +0,353 ( -0,159)
       0,586 0,002 0,000 - 0,414 0,015 0,000 CL  +0,159 CF  +0,353
The difference has to do with the cube, but it has to be found out how. White has some flexibility, so at black's next turn the situation will look something like this:


Being curious how the placement of the black checker impacts the cube decisions, I show the rollouts for the checker from the 16 to the 13-point, ignoring the checker in the innerboard by moving it to 3:
White - Pips 66

Black - Pips 40


16-point
Code:
Cube analysis
Rollout cubeless equity  +0,267

Cubeful equities:
1. Double, take         +0,432
2. Double, pass         +1,000  ( +0,568)
3. No double            +0,421  ( -0,010)
Proper cube action: Redouble, take
15-point
Code:
Cube analysis
Rollout cubeless equity  +0,313

Cubeful equities:
1. Double, take         +0,537
2. Double, pass         +1,000  ( +0,463)
3. No double            +0,442  ( -0,095)

Proper cube action: Redouble, take
14-point
Code:
Cube analysis
Rollout cubeless equity  +0,411

Cubeful equities:
1. Double, take         +0,746
2. Double, pass         +1,000  ( +0,254)
3. No double            +0,542  ( -0,204)
Proper cube action: Redouble, take
13-point
Code:
Cube analysis
Rollout cubeless equity  +0,524

Cubeful equities:
1. Double, take         +0,971
2. Double, pass         +1,000  ( +0,029)
3. No double            +0,646  ( -0,326)
Proper cube action: Redouble, take
There is a sharper drop in “take strength” from 15 to 14, which is continued from 14 to 13. It's a difference of more than 0,2.
From the 14-point black can jump additionally with 63 and 54. If he doesn't manage to jump, with the same dice he will get 1 pip closer to white's blot, though this will differ one shot at most.
So I am dumbfounded by the plunge in take-ability, and hope someone can help.
the big thread about cube decisions Quote
07-17-2015 , 09:17 AM
you hop over with 8 rolls from 15 and 12 rolls from 14, so your "bad/good" roll proportion is 3.5-to-1 from 15 and 2-to-1 from 14, not sure if there's anything else
the big thread about cube decisions Quote
07-17-2015 , 10:47 AM
In this type of last contact position the big cube influence is more common if You are considering anchor vs anchor positions (break anchor now or wait 1 more turn).

Here the correct play doesn't have much to do with the cube, as there's no real game-plan difference between both plays.

The correct play of 18/14 8/5 is better than 18/15 8/4 because it gets You closer to home (more rolls to jump if missed), leaves less rolls to force the blot into the direct shot next turn (41 and 42 are safe) at the cost of only 1 more shot (62 53 44 22 vs. 63 54 33).
the big thread about cube decisions Quote

      
m