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Problem of the Week #59: April 18 Problem of the Week #59: April 18

04-21-2010 , 11:28 PM
Problem of the Week #59: April 18


Cash game, center cube.




Should Black double? If he doubles, should White take or drop?


Note: All ‘cash game’ problems assume the Jacoby Rule is in effect. That is, you can’t win a gammon unless the cube has been turned.
Problem of the Week #59: April 18 Quote
04-22-2010 , 01:05 AM
No double/take. I think the position is stronger for white than a standard 5-5 blitz with one white checker on the bar. Although black has an escaped man and a made 10 point, white has made the 5, has nobody on the bar, and good prospects for an anchor followed by play vs the lone black back man. Additionally, black's points are stripped, making his only really strong threat the one to roll even numbers and point on the 4 follwed by a white dance.
Problem of the Week #59: April 18 Quote
04-22-2010 , 01:24 AM
Agree. Hard to put it into words- black has made some progress, but his position isn't that exciting yet with only 3 points, no solid blocking structure, and a man still back, and white's made progress as well and isn't losing the race.

No double/take.
Problem of the Week #59: April 18 Quote
04-22-2010 , 05:42 AM
This is a huge double.
Black has a significant race lead, stonger board and is aiming at 3 blots plus white has no anchor. The volatility is high. Although white wins many games he also loses many gammons.
On the plus side his structure is solid and having his own 5 point made is a huge asset so plenty of counterplay. Easy take.
Problem of the Week #59: April 18 Quote
04-22-2010 , 09:06 AM
Enough market losers to make it a double. Easy take with decent struture.
Problem of the Week #59: April 18 Quote
04-22-2010 , 09:37 AM
No double for me. Point and fan may be a market loser, but there are plenty of other scenarios, where I'm happy to not have cubed.
Problem of the Week #59: April 18 Quote
04-22-2010 , 09:37 AM
This looks like an easy double. A 34 pip race lead (152/118) and ten pointing numbers. Plus we will hit loose with many numbers as well. The take is less clear. In a straight race this is a big drop. However, I agree with above that this looks better then my nearest point of reference (55 blitz) with no checkers on the roof and the five point made. We still have a chance to anchor even if hit loose and contain blacks last checker. With blacks last checker at the midpoint I pass instantly. But here I think we can squeek out a take.

Double/ close take
Problem of the Week #59: April 18 Quote
04-22-2010 , 11:25 AM
Ugly position. Why would black even think of doubling here?
The only rock crushers he has are 6-6 and 4-4. Black's board is ugly having made the 1 point. I guess He played a 5-5 at some point and made the 3 and 1 point after white split his checkers. As soon as white anchors black will be in for a struggle.

Answer - No double, take.
Problem of the Week #59: April 18 Quote
04-22-2010 , 12:53 PM
I'd double. Black has already escaped one checker, white has no structure, black is looking gammonish if things go very well, and is way ahead in the race if white anchors.

There's a lot of volatility in this position. Black will easily lose his market if he points and white fans, but will possibly lose his market even if he points and white doesn't fan. He may also lose his market if he rolls something like 65 to escape his back checker and white doesn't anchor up. There's so much that can go very right for black and so little that can go very wrong that I think it's a pretty big error not to double.

White should take. As good as it is for black right now, white still has plenty of game left (if the dice allow him to avoid being blitzed). Black has work to do to finish up, and his deep points are a liability. If white can get an anchor, black will have a little bit of difficulty getting his checkers around safely since all of his outfield points are stripped, giving chances to hit a checker and even up the race a little.
Problem of the Week #59: April 18 Quote
04-22-2010 , 02:17 PM
a 34-pip lead, 3 home points vs 2, some outfield points useful for both blocking White and for eventually landing the midpoint checkers, 1 checker back to 2. Looks like an obvious double.

White could still make an anchor and contain/attack Black's back man. 4-4 or 6-6 are disastrous for White. 6-4 (hitting), 6-2, 4-2, 2-2 and 1-1 (all pointing) are also very good rolls for Black. Black should not hit loose, so it looks like White has a good take as well.

Double / Take

Last edited by uberkuber; 04-22-2010 at 02:25 PM. Reason: Added thoughts
Problem of the Week #59: April 18 Quote
04-22-2010 , 06:24 PM
I just cant believe my eyes that the majority think this is a no double position. you guys must not like winning gammons. This has to be a monster double. very standard blitz type double. those who disagree need to spend some time reviewing blitz reference positions.
Problem of the Week #59: April 18 Quote
04-23-2010 , 12:26 AM
Wow, I'm not sure how I botched the race as much as I did. I must have literally counted guys for the wrong team. I said no race lead, but it's a huge race lead (obviously...).

Double/take.
Problem of the Week #59: April 18 Quote
04-23-2010 , 10:57 AM
It's a snap fist pump double imo even with 6-3-1 board
Problem of the Week #59: April 18 Quote
04-23-2010 , 11:31 AM
Double. Must turn gammons on now before we lose our market.

For white, I think its close between a take and a pass. White will definitely lose its fair share of 4s in this spot, but I think it has a good enough structure to get some wins if it survives the blitz.

Black's attack is also a little weaker than it first appears due to duplication. Many of its different threats require the same rolls. 6-4, 6-2, 4-2.

Double/Take
Problem of the Week #59: April 18 Quote
04-23-2010 , 05:45 PM
Monster double - not sure it's even a take, finding it hard to think of a bad roll for black. I took one like this recently, Black had 2 checkers back and a similar stripped position, I think I also had my 3 point made so it was clearly a take - he rolled 66 of course! With one checker back and a huge race lead, outboarded I would definitely pass.
Problem of the Week #59: April 18 Quote
04-23-2010 , 07:23 PM
Since I'm not sure whether to take or drop, let's invoke Woolsey's law, and call this a double. As far as the take goes, White has the twenty point, which should give some protection from the oncoming attack. Unfortunately, White also has an outside blot, and Black has enough checkers in the zone to close five home board points.

On this turn, Black can hit one checker and cover with eight rolls: 11, 33, 24, 26, and 46. Three rolls, 22, 44, and 66, are jokers: they let Black hit twice and cover. In case he can't hit and cover, Black can also make the five point with an additional seven rolls: 13, 15, 35, and 55. That's eighteen very strong rolls, and we haven't even begun counting the loose hits.

My solution: Double/drop.

For the Record
I am so often wrong that I like to post my record in these messages. It's kind of a truth-in-advertising thing. I have been answering these problems without the use of a bot, and before checking the excellent solutions of others, since Problem 28. Including the 39a tossup, my record at this writing is 51% correct.
20 Correct: 28a, 29, 30, 32, 35, 36, 38, 39a, 39b, 42b, 43, 44, 45, 47, 48a, 48b, 50, 52b, 53, 57. 19 Incorrect: 28b, 31, 33a, 33b, 34, 37, 40a, 40b, 41, 42a, 46, 48c, 49, 51, 52a, 54, 55, 56, 58.

Last edited by Taper_Mike; 04-23-2010 at 07:31 PM.
Problem of the Week #59: April 18 Quote
04-24-2010 , 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taper_Mike
Three rolls, 22, 44, and 66, are jokers: they let Black hit twice and cover.
I'm not sure I would hit twice with 22. It seems obvious to send 2 checkers on the bar with a 4-point board, but the open points are the 2 most importants, the 4 and 5 points. After that, we would have to roll perfectly to fill at least one of those points, thus leaving White plenty of time to re-enter both his checkers. I guess Black would then have to hit loose along the way, but with a big lead in the race (a blot fest would compromise that lead) and White having his 5-pt made, it could complicate matters for Black. Granted, Black would have a 4-pt board vs a 2-pt board, but the quality of the points would be lacking.

What about playing 10/4* 6/4 with 2-2? That would also leave us some pointing numbers for the 5-pt and we could hit loose on the 5-pt if White re-enters there? If White anchors on the 2-pt, it reduces our gammon chances a lot, but we're still a big favorite in the game.

Any thoughts on that 2-2 roll?
Problem of the Week #59: April 18 Quote
04-24-2010 , 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by uberkuber
Any thoughts on that 2-2 roll?
I'd hit twice. Your gammon rate goes up a huge amount with the second checker on the bar and you've already started down the blitz path by making the 1 and 3 points. If you're playing a priming-type game, the 4-5 points have much more value, but when you're blitzing-type game, every point is basically the same.

With two on the bar, you can afford to play loose in the outfield, and you should probably pick-and-pass to keep two on the bar as long as possible while you bring your other checkers around (even if it means burying checkers). Yeah, it sucks if don't complete the blitz, but even then you'll have a huge racing lead and your chances of winning by scrambling are pretty good.
Problem of the Week #59: April 18 Quote
04-25-2010 , 08:59 AM
Thanks Aaron for your comments. Since Black started blitzing, it makes sense to continue with the same plan if the dice cooperate, which is the case with 2-2. I'm not just sure how far we should go. Pick-and-pass, burying checkers, I'm not sure I would go that far. The thing is, even if you keep 2 White checkers on the bar as long as possible, you would still be scrambling to make that important 5th point (either the 4 or 5 pt). A 5-pt board vs a 4-pt board is probably a big difference for gammon chances here.

Any other thoughts on the 2-2 roll?
Problem of the Week #59: April 18 Quote
04-25-2010 , 09:32 AM
With 22 hitting twice increases your gammon chances by so much. I believe it also makes it easier to get home as we can bring our checkers freely throgh the outfield while our opponent is on the bar.
Problem of the Week #59: April 18 Quote
04-25-2010 , 10:15 AM
I also wanted to add to my above post that Aaron is right on the money with his reply. in these blitz positions all inner board points are almost equal. The four and five points are very important in many early and middle game situations where priming is a goal. Here, points are points.
Problem of the Week #59: April 18 Quote

      
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