Growth and development is about expanding awareness. It's NOT about accessing more input, more information. Most teenagers have limited awareness in that what concerns them most typically is their immediate surroundings, popularity in their school and so on. You can tell them about larger issues but if they are closed off, it doesn't matter. They haven't developed their awareness to the point where they can implement this information.

The same is true for spiritual understanding. The only thing that is limiting people in this area is because they haven't extended themselves far enough. I'm not talking behaviorally or physically; I'm talking about desire. You can choose comfort or or you can choose truth but not both. It's human nature to choose comfort but the seeker has to continuously push himself outside of his comfort zone. The seeker is constantly uncertain, insecure, uncomfortable, unfulfilled. He is curious and open minded but skeptical and suspicious. This desire for truth is constant in the background of his mind no matter what he is doing. Can you feel the tension that is required that I'm trying to portray?

They are called the BIG questions for a reason. There is nothing that is more important. This stuff is too important to half ass or to adopt from other people or books written by other people. Get it straight from the source. DEMAND it. Once you extend yourself then you will be met halfway, but the first move is yours. If uncertainty remains or if you remain unfulfilled in any way, then you're not done. That is the hardest part - continuing when you think you've reached the end. It's why Jesus warned about false messiahs and false prophets. He is talking about the deceptions within your own mind that convince you to stop seeking.

"Let those who seek continue to seek until they find"

Hi Craig,

OK. I am a sincere seeker. Mind bringing me up to speed on what you have discovered so far on your journey?!

Interestingly, I think "spirituality" is merely just such comfort. Instead of seeking the rules we can perceive, we seek the rules we can't perceive. This is because the rules we can perceive (so far) seem somewhat absurd, mostly arbitrary and rarely under our control.

I actually think spirituality has much in common with grand scale conspiracy theories. It gives the impression of a smaller and more rational world, one which is easier to control and one where we can attain truth and not just guesswork.

Matthew 7:12
12 “All things, therefore, that you want men to do to you, you also must do to them. This, in fact, is what the Law and the Prophets mean."

so presumably you have extended yourself and been met halfway, that is met by god.

Might Jesus have been warning me not to trust you?

Gotta love it when people nail up a preach post in the forum and then walk away.

Only talks... eat acid - see the truth...

I have tried to explain a few times on this forum what drives spiritual/mental development. I've mentioned the role suffering or dissatisfaction plays to fuel it but there are many people who won't change no matter how much they suffer, so there has to be more to it. In this thread, I'm talking about how you also have to have a burning desire but that is not very useful or practical advice. Where does the desire come from?

In order to make any progress, you have to live in the mindset that you may be living a lie, that your current experience of reality may be at least somewhat false. You can go through a lot of pain in life and not be moved to change but the idea that you are not experiencing complete truth will eventually create a deep conflict within you that can no longer be tolerated.

Now, this is different than being able to acknowledge this possibility occasionally - you cannot allow it to be suppressed. As long as you are living in it, it will grow naturally over time, fueled by suffering, until that burning desire becomes present. Progress then becomes inevitable.

This has to be done over and over. Take the example of Buddha. He became aware of the intuition that there has to be something more than his current experience and he lived in it. It grew to the point that eventually led him to meditate under a tree for hours and hours with intense focus and a burning desire for truth. He has a realization, a deeper glimpse into reality but what happens? Instead of reconnecting with that intuitive feeling to further progress he allows himself to be convinced that he has reached the end.

The further along you progress, the more resistance there is to living in the idea that there is more truth to pursue. This resistance is driven by pain avoidance. I know there are many people who become aware of this feeling and allow themselves to live in it for a time, but do not take enough time to let it grow. They are too impatient and want results, so they act too quickly and they don't have enough desire to persist through the resistance. The end result is the intuitive feeling gets suppressed and they turn away. If you fail at this enough times eventually you never revisit it. There are too many people trying to force themselves to meditate and don't realize they are doing more harm than good.

Like I've said, the value is in doing it and not allowing yourself to be sucked into thought. Philosophy is a hindrance to attaining truth. Everyone is capable of doing it - that's the whole point.

I think this entirely depends on your perspective. If it turned out that there were no gods, I would breath a sigh of relief and find that comforting.

Agreed.

Then, in all fairness, the natural question to you is what truths is that you question? You talk very highly of seeking truth, but you seem very opinionated on how to get there. Are you exempting your ideas on how to attain truth from being questioned?

And, a question to your OP. You seem to take for granted that there are some "BIG questions". Why? Why is "is there more to experience" bigger than "how tall is that tree?"

At the core of all religion/spiritual seeking is the desire for a higher quality of life and to decrease suffering. That's how it was for me and that's how I see it overall.

I'm not exempting myself from being questioned but I have my own sort of mental criteria for responding to posts based on how productive responding will be, whether I've answered the question previously, who's asking the questions, etc. A lot of times, like in this previous post, I'm just wanting to get an idea jotted down so I don't lose it. My activity on this forum I see as preparation for what I plan to do in the future. For the first eight or so years that I've pursued this, I had pretty much no interactions with anyone about any of it, so seeing how people react (or don't) to what I share has helped me either confirm what I thought or given me knew insight.

For your last question, my answer is that's just how it is. Intuition makes that question more important because we are meant to seek it out. Clarity about why there needs to be such a struggle for self discovery and self attainment comes later.

I don't completely agree with this definition. Suffering in Christianity is to be accepted and embraced as part of the process of purification. The life of Christ demonstrates this quite explicitly.

Not that I completely disagree with your implication, because you're only giving a summation, but I think it's good to emphasize the different reasons one seeks.

I mentioned decreasing suffering as an eventual long-term goal, which you took to mean as AVOIDING pain. If you've read many of my posts, you should be familiar with how I feel about letting pain avoidance dictate your life.

I know it's not what you believe, that's why I said that I don't disagree with your implication, that this is only a summation, but the way you worded it here may give others the wrong impression, "that the core of all religion...is to avoid suffering" is bound to be taken the wrong way.

Not everyone has read your previous posts, just wanted to clarify this for others, not to dispute your view.

Truth is based on facts. Facts are based in reality, by observing and testing.

I agree that is about expanding awareness (you could say a greater observation). I tried to explain this situation to my mum she has fixed deep rooted beliefs in Christianity. I explained that her mind is like this table (which was covered in bible literature) I said to her I can show you anything new because,

1. Your mind is filled with the bible and Jesus
2. Anything new I show you will be compared to the standard set by the bible, if it does not fit in with the bibles standard it is rejected.

I said to her I had to empty my mind and bring to table a mind of "I don't know but I'm willing to learn" this is the first step in becoming aware, this "I don't know mind".

But as soon as you learn something new, you dont have an "I dont know mind" any more.

That is correct. What you have is the type of knowledge and understanding the same as the way you know to lift your arm, how to speak or how to grow your hair...etc

From where does this meaning come? What if there isn't any meaning? I don't feel like there's any meaning to life (or life in general), or that I have a special purpose, why would I?

It's not realized how you think it should be. Intuition is always going to be in the background or just out of reach. If it is a 100 foot path, you won't gain the kind of clarity you want about how you've progressed along the path, the purpose of the path, or whether the path even exists until you've gone 99 of the 100 feet.

That doesn't mean it's impossible though. If you have 10 advisors and 9 of them are telling you the same thing, you have to be willing to consider that lone advisor. There may be times when you're completely focused on the nine and are unaware a tenth advisor exists, but he's always there. This tenth advisor is always speaking to you but he speaks softly and the only way you can hear him is if you get the other nine to shut up. So, to be successful most of your focus needs to be on the nine advisors and getting them to shut up. If you try to focus on just the tenth advisor, then you will fail because you'll think you are hearing him when it's one of the other nine.

I'm not sure how this is answering my question, it's a bit woowooish.

Why should I think that my life has 'meaning'? What 'meaning' are you talking about?

I can't speak for craig1120, but when I talk about "meaning" to your life I'm referring to things like "what is different about you and an object of great material gain?" and "What is special about you that anyone should bother with you at all?" Or you just another human robot or is there more to you than that?

You might say that you don't know, and you may not know but still be behaving and acting seen by others as special..i.e. your family for example.

Why would there be, why would I be searching for meaning in the first place? It's almost as if it were given that I'd have a reason to do that, that I'd feel a need to do that, but I don't think that's true.

This is 'external' meaning that I have little, if any control over, it doesn't give me a meaning to my life to know that it means something to others.

So what you are saying to me is that you are worth as much as a bag of garbage?

Now if you say "no I'm worth more than that", then how so? Because you think you are human it is assumed you are worth more?

I'm not sure that 'worth' and 'meaning' are synonymous, but even if they were, what a strange comparison. Why would you try to value my life against whatever value a bag of garbage has?

I live, I do things, I think things, I experience, but why does any of that have to have 'meaning'? It implies that there's a value to meaning that my life lacks without meaning, I disagree.

Why say these things if they don't have meaning to you?