Please read carefully. It is the stated mission of Christianity to spread the idea of "love thy neighbor" and they try to spread it. Atheism has no basis on which to spread that word. Sure some individual atheists feel they are moral but they have no inclination to promote love or morals. In fact they would feel they are imposing themselves on others.

What the studies say doesn't matter. They could be flawed or maybe correct. Who knows? Religions are the only groups promoting the idea of empathy, love, morality. Maybe they aren't doing it well and they need to do it better. They should keep trying because who else will do it?

If you care (at all) about evidence, you would care about what the studies say. If you don't care about evidence and would rather prefer to believe in your own narrative then I won't stop you. But at least qualify next time that: "What the studies say doesn't matter to me".

Thanks.

Didn't read whole thread but without God nothing is permitted. Something had to create us. Even if it was aliens, something had to create the aliens. I guess atheists believe in the big bang theory but something had to create the big bang.

God said, "Let there be Light". From that light Lucifer is created, God's first unbegotten* son is how I see it. When Lucifer becomes corrupted and rebels against Gods will, he is punished and degraded to Satan. The way I see it is that God let Satan keep his corrupted false light-bearing powers to test man's soul, will and dedication to God. For if man doesn't really love God he will find the false light of the wicked to be his guide, which is a path of destruction. While if a man really loves God and cherishes His will and gift of life he will be guided towards the Truth, Jesus, towards a path of Eternal Love.

In the end God will take away the powers of Satan and then destroy him and his followers. Not everything is permitted in God's Kingdom. For His will is that we find truth and love. Living a life without God in your heart will allow you to do whatever you can make happen but without God you will find destruction at you end.





*not a real word at least not yet

On the contrary, that is the whole point of philosophy - to find reasons to support a view that is more correct than another person's.

Unless you are against the whole idea of writing or speaking persuasively, and want us all to live like hermits, what you just said is nonsense.

My style might be a bit on the provocative side, yes. That doesn't mean I'm overconfident that what I believe is what true, it means I like presenting information in a way that provokes responses. I would actually become an atheist tomorrow if someone would convince me. I've been on the other side of the aisle before.

Dry, pedantic prose aren't interesting to many people. Do you think Socrates would have provoked anyone if he wasn't self confident?

Why anyone would need convincing that we simply don't know some things baffles me.

They don't understand the purpose of philosophy

Morality is mostly interesting in as much as it carries over to law, imo. In other words, it's mostly an impotent view if it won't be enforced.

There is no methodology from which an atheist can make an authoritative argument for the imposition or removal of law, however, he could convince people to impose his opinion through force.

Perhaps the OP should be stated as - "Without God, no lawgiver is authorized"

People keep repeating the same mistake.

It should read: "There is no methodology from which an atheist can make an authoritative argument for the imposition or removal of law to my awareness".

Thanks.

Authority is a meaningless concept apart from God.

If you're going to exclude the possibility of it ever having meaning, then strong atheists who do the same for God are equally justified. Unless you have a methodology by which to reconcile the two opposing perspectives?

I doubt you do, since you've already decided on one.

Strong atheists say, 'since there is no God, no one is authorized to enforce his laws', and you assume by this they're justified?

Not in God's courts obviously, as they'd be executed for blaspheme.

see above

Circular argument is circular.

Strong atheists say that God is meaningless.

Just as you say that:

Authority without God is meaningless.

I don't mean to totally ignore the studies. The studies have potential importance for assessing the effectiveness of religion, but I was addressing a different issue. Are Christianity and other religions needed at all in the world? Even if they are not effective in promoting morality now they need to continue since promoting morality is a good thing, and they are the only ones trying, and they can get better at it.

It's not a circular argument. It's simply acknowledging God as God, as opposed to lots of men, or atheists.

Why is authority without God meaningless?

Because God.

Why is God necessary?

Because God.

There does need to be laws. Whomever or whatever one derives these laws from are effectively his God.

I don't need a law to see that I hate myself when I lie to people I love. Nor do I need a law to stop myself from lying.

If you do, that's your problem, not one that I share with you however.

But we do need a law that makes fraudulent business activity a crime known as fraud. And we do need to deter people from testifying falsely on the witness stand.

Sure, but that doesn't take away from the fact that some people will behave morally and some won't, regardless of God-beliefs or laws.

Yes, but the law gives us recourse against the egregious offenders that are actually problematic.

You may be missing my point in the previous comment.

Clearly, there is a large aspect of morality that is something more intrinsic, and separate to both God and law-making.

Let me refer you back to my first comment in this thread.

Your point is that the law is insufficient to producing perfect people? Perhaps...

Or is it that there is an inner goodness in you that shouldn't be bound by law?

Spot-on.

Whether I believe in God or not is irrelevant. Whether I believe in the law against fraud is irrelevant. I will be a good person anyway.