One should stay away from Heideggers writings for similar reasons.

Just curious: Who deems someone the "top muslim" Are there board meetings where these sort of things are decided for different faiths?

there is 200+ videos to choose from so all the information is there
you see the same thing over and over again not just a single 30 second clip

come on m8

i dont see anything strange about the fact that he had to wait 40 years
jesus healed someone who was blind since birth

if anything he will appreciate it even more and it will strengthen his faith

You're missing the point. There is no medical information in any of these videos (so in fact I agree that you see the same thing over and over, and it doesn't matter if there are 5 or 500 of them). The young man whose scoliosis improved was a <30 second clip in total, yet you think you have sufficient information to know what happened to him! All that shows is you have made up your mind beforehand, regardless of evidence.

By your reasoning, it sounds like we should all be blind or in severe pain etc for long periods of time - but that does that not happen - so which is it? Most people get to live their lives in a relatively healthy fashion, but others have to live with severe health problems so that when they are finally "healed" (something that supposedly happens in a matter of moments) it might be so they come to appreciate it more (despite half their life having passed in the mean time)? Who are you to completely ignore what some disabled person might have accomplished with their life if they had been better able bodied, even if the accomplishment was simply "lived a pain-free life"? Wow.

I can think of a few reasons to avoid excessive marijuana usage but "portal to demonic oppression" is not on my list. If I had my druthers it would be legalized and regulated similarly to alcohol, but that might be more politics than religion, although there is probably some religious tie-in to finding the effects of the "war on drugs" far more pernicious than marijuana.

I have tested this hypothesis extensively and found no evidence to support it. Unless I did, and then forgot.

isnt that exactly what evidence is, seeing the same thing over and over again?
and when people say specifically its the prayer that healed them you just start to take their word for it

i could go up to a person who had surgery and say "nope unless you go to the hospital and pay for another xray and I see you walk in the xray machine and i see the xray coming out of the machine then i simply wont believe you were healed"

but when it comes to god thats basically what youre asking for you are just upping the bar for no reason

and to your other part all i gotta say is that we could of all went pain free lives but the world we live everyone has to suffer at some point in their life... were all sick with sin and need a doctor and by calling on the Lord he does always provide... the question should be "why dont we all have arthritis?" that would actually be merciful since we all deserve hell.

Evidence is more than just seeing things over and over again. Seeing things repeatedly doesn't provide the explanation for them. We've gotta dig deeper for that.

Also, the point about the surgery is pretty bad. We don't ask people to provide evidence for every single thing they say but if someone is making an extra-ordinary claim then of course we demand evidence for that. That would apply for anything, not just god. If a scientist made a claim that went against current scientific knowledge we would demand evidence for it so we're not setting the bar higher for god.

Also, I'll ask again why does no one heal amputees?

There is a whole thread devoted to this question here: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/13...utees-1104316/

God doesn't work coercively, but rather with persuasion.

Noober is discussing people who are able to heal others. That thread appears to be about praying to god to be healed. They're related but different.

I don't follow your surgery example. If someone broke a bone, it would first be confirmed with xrays, then it would be fixed by an orthopedic surgeon (you could even watch the surgery go down at some hospitals), and finally the set bone would be verified by xray. What you are requesting would in general be performed as routine. I am not upping any bar, I am simply pointing out there is a missing bar.

Let me put it this way: imagine there was a fake healer who had no special abilities whatsoever and had no influence over anyone's ability to heal - there was no healing involved. In what way would their videos differ from any of the ones you have watched? Without looking any further into the results, you would also have ended up just taking their word for it even though it was untrue. That's my point.

"and when people say specifically its the prayer that healed them you just start to take their word for it" - that's exactly the problem I am trying to show you (at least if you want to understand what is real, rather than what you want to be real).

I just wanted to add two items:

From Pete Cabrera Jr.'s site ( http://petecabrerajr.com/?p=148 ):


A rabbi from Canada speaks of four things regarding Yeshua's healing ministry ( and gives a testimony of someone being healed ) :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3huU_woz1A

Pete Cabrera Jr doing the old fake growing leg trick....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDEPNopQiuk

Check the video when it's sped up. It's laughable.

Yeah, actually Pete Cabrera Jr. got a lot of flak and emails ( including some pastor ) for doing that "leg trick" in a specific video and wrote about it in his blog, not only claiming that it was real but was willing to fly out some well known ( unmentioned ) atheist to see for himself and to spend a week with him ( but the atheist declined ). I understand why Pete was moved to do it, and he doesn't really care that much if you believe or not, but rather that "G-d" is glorified and people are healed.

The link you give has the video edited whereas Pete didn't want the video to get edited.

If ou watch the whole video to the end it gets even funnier as you can clearly see both legs are the same length when the guy sits them on the floor.

Also, how appropriate that the 'well named' atheist is unmentioned. It just looks like a blatant lie to me. Why doesn't he offer to do it in front of someone like James Randi? Given all the videos he's putting out there he's obviously not shy and he's looking for a wider audience so doing it in front of Randi should get him the acknowledgement he craves.

He's a scam artist of the lowest kind, telling people that the 'healing' doesn't last as they have let the devil in. Shame on him for doing such a thing.

Why do only some get healed?

Put yourself in non-believer shoes and answer that yourself.

nooberftw, don't forget to respond to this comment pls:

it wouldnt have ever happened if he wasnt actually healing people

there would be like 1 and it would be an obvious staged in front of a big audience

this guy has no motivation for it he gets literally 1k views and spends his money and time and is so sincere

go try your hardest to get that many people to cooperate while just using special techniques to convince people they have been healed i will give you all my money if you can even get a few solid reactions

Can I substitute Derren Brown for myself, he makes a living performing tricks of the kind that you just described. He claims not to use stooges, but then so do faith healers.

I can imagine powerful but non-financial motivations without trying very hard. Healing people, especially as a representative of a deity, must be quite a power trip. If he truly believes that he's healing, that must be an awesome feel good activity too. Maybe he knows he's scamming and gets a kick out of conning people.

etc etc

alright lets see some darren brown street healing

i typed in "Derren Brown street healing" and a video about him "exposing" the leg trick when its blatantly not even close

he says they just move the shoe back a little bit
talk about con artist

anyone can tell you the difference between this



and this



hes not even touching the foot when he does it

See the link I posted above for someone showing how it's done (and a fake healer being exposed).

Also, why do so many people do this fake leg extending thing? It's well known how to do it. If they really have supernatural powers or whatever then why don't they extend someone's torso, or extend their hand or something else? Why do they all do the leg thing? Rhetorical questions obv as we know the reason.

noober, are you saying that the healer guy extends the leg for real? It actually happens that the leg grows and then shrinks again?

Forgot to add to my post above. Why don't we see these people stand up and walk around with their 'extended leg' before it's returned to it's normal size?

they extend the leg because people walk around with legs that arent perfectly the same length

the shrinking it was just to show a repeated demonstration so people know its not fake

and people do walk around with the new extended leg and they say its AWESOME its in the 1st tom fischer video i posted