You right that was unfair, everything/anything doesn't really change much though.

Im probably just making my point badly, just ignore me.

Since the rest of this diatribe rests on this premise, then it would be interesting to see some proof of the premise. The classical doctrine of the trinity certainly does not teach this. Without the premise, the rest falls like a house of cards.

Even if the premise is valid, which I don't think it is, the remaining statements are just ludicrous.

Uh, what? Huge chunks of the gospels are Jesus' words. Haven't you seen any of those editions of the Bible where Jesus' words are printed in red letters? Lots of red letters. Voiceless? I don't think so.

Perhaps this means he died voiceless as he was dying? Excuse me, HE WAS DYING!

"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven."

Matthew 5:43-45

I could go on and on.

This is simply laughable. Does anyone in this forum actually read this crap before jumping on the bandwagon? Looks like a classic case of preaching to the choir.

You will be reproving these guys on this forum for eternity, LOL! They really need to learn the word better if they are going to try and shake up a knowledable Christian.

You may not agree with anything I have or do post but its nice to see someone point out all the stupid crap these guys are saying.

They really have no clue, I have no clue why they even hang out in a religous forum, other than to try and attack believers.

They have actually caused at least one, who was not real solid in the word to basically denounce his belief in the bible.

Note that my comments don't even assume, infer, or require any actual belief in the Bible. They simply point out the utter lack of reason and factual understanding of the Bible by the OP and the author he quotes.

The trinity teaches Jesus is God. Could you post proof using the bible or a link to some teachings that the Christian God is not all knowing when manifesting himself in human form?

Sure...

"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only." Matthew 24:36 (Jesus speaking)

"Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, being made in the likeness of men." Philippians 2:5-7

OMG, God is not Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ was not and is not all knowing. That is one of the reasons why its amazing that some Christians still think he was God.

It says that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself, it also says that Christ is in you, now does that make you Christ.

God was in Christ, yes that was true, but He was not Christ and Christ was not God.

God was in Christ by way of holy spirit, Christ had holy spirit given to him, and God via this spirit was in Christ.

God gives Christians holy spirit upon the new birth and God is in them via that spirit and that does not make us God any more than it made Christ God.

You all might as well be arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, because I can show you probably 100 verses that would have to be thrown out of the bible if Jesus Christ was God. There are only a very small amount of verses that trinitarians use as their core defense for the doctrine of the trinity and a few of them are forgeries which can be proven to be forgeries of the text.

If you were just to go by the biblical logical research priniciple of "the difficult verse has to be understood in light of the many clear verses about a specific subject" then you would have overwhelming evidence contrary to the trinity, it is only people who have a mis-understanding of the words in the bible that are confused, and many of these people are those in the religous training seminaries of some of the top denominations in the world.

So its a trickle down affect, they are taught wrong in the seminaries and then they teach those under them wrongly and if they ever go against the grain of what they were taught they will lose their paid postions as clergy. So they obviously are controlled to a degree by fear. Most just go with the flow even though nothing about the trinity makes sense and none of it flows at all with the whole word.

If people get toooo questiony about it (the trinity) they are told its a mystery and you got to take it on faith, which basically means we can't explain it, it makes no sense but just believe us. And so they do!

Pletho

I thought under the trinity he is his father and his father is him.
The verse kind of goes against the trinity with God naming himself...just saying.

It goes on to say he could die but it doesn't say anything about seeing into the future. I mean if you're saying because he was made in the likeness of man, he was no longer omnipotent. Then how did he walk on water, turn water into wine, feed the masses with not enough bread... It looks to me like he had his powers in tacked, so you are going to have to show me a verse or something that shows directly he couldn't see the future.

I don't know much about this and am willing to be proven wrong. But what i was taught in church was that Jesus was God and that he did make prophecies of his death and betrayal.

To tell you the truth i think the second part of the op is a better argument against Christianity then the first part. The whole why didn't Jesus do this and why didn't Jesus do that is easily shot down with the freewill/god has a plan man counter argument.

I just wanted to add. The argument Jesus cant see onto the future is missing Ingersoll point.

His argument basically is. If Jesus can see into the future why didn't he...

He didn't claim to see into the future in a general sense.

Jesus did predict the coming Kingdom of God within the lifetime of his followers which didn't happen.

Jesus was correct about the destruction of the temple.

So, Ingersoll's strawman is somewhat standing. Kind of hunched over. Didn't really knock it down completely. Try again?

Prediction is the wrong word, its called prophesy. There is a difference.

All prophecies that Jesus Christ foretold have come to pass or will come to pass exactly as they were foretold. The problem is you do not understand what is meant by the kingdom of God, and since that is true you probably do not understand many other things also.

The 16th verse:

'' Jesus likes little children, so do I ''

Under the assumption he's God, are you saying God could not see the future in every sense?

It isn't his strawman, he didn't invent the idea Jesus was God.

Weird how the book containing that prophesy was written right after the temple fell.

Good point, that was a bad example. I do believe he was against the temple system as it existed then though he may not have prophesied it's destruction.

My main point was that Jesus never claimed to see into the future beyond predicting/prophesying (is that a word?) the coming Kingdom of God. Or did he? I can't think of any examples beyond the Kingdom.