How do you perfect yourself? Certainly not one of us can be perfect.

"be ye therefore perfect, as your father in heaven is perfect"

Well, I'm not saying it's easy, but we can start by not being egregiously imperfect.

Maybe a good starting point would be to examine all the death penalty crimes and not doing those.

Are you just gonna skip over the part itt where you said poor people dying doesn't matter?

It's obviously not easy, but is it possible? Are you saying that in order to attain salvation you need to be perfect? Eye of a needle indeed.

You mean when I said this?:

in response to this:

The argument wasn't compelling to me as I said...so yea, I was hoping to move on. I wasn't implying being poor is a crime or sin...

Perhaps I should state it more like - you have to be a certain way. And that way is law abiding, and justice seeking. Basically, you have to be willing to do God's will - thereby acknowledging Him as God. Your actions should be geared towards instituting His laws, and removing the bs - fighting for the kingdom.

Would you say that salvation is attained by being law abiding and trying to do God's will?

Hmm, I sense a trap with a Paulian punchline.

On our end, yes. Except maybe emphasize doing over trying.

This is one of the funniest threads I've seen in a long time.

Tyranny.
Pessimism.
Fear of Death.
Redundancy.
Slavery.

^ Key themes in any good book written 1500 - 3000 years ago ^

I'm trying to understand your interpretation of the doctrine of salvation.

So far from what you've said, you need to attempt to be God-like. How about I put it like this. I'd like to know how I can get to heaven, what must I do to be saved?

VeeDDzz`, what are you thoughts on the New Testament, specifically? I'm just curious, not a trap or anything.

I'm afraid I won't be able to answer the question seriously, so it may not be worthwhile. From my readings, I've noticed that there are a lot of commonly recurring themes throughout the chronological history of literature.

However, there are some themes not worth revisiting, and some that are not merely irrelevant but also detrimental to the modern human condition. My belief is that the New Testament revisits some of these, and so I hesitate to answer the question, for fear of treating them too flippantly for your own liking.

I'll provide one example nonetheless:
Attributing all (or majority) of one's fortunes and misfortunes in life - to the will of a God - causes one to externalize their problems. In the long-term, this is not healthy for one's psychology, their wallet or their personal relationships. It is also likely to make one more obedient to existing power-structures and thus less likely to question circumstances in which there is blatant corruption or abuse of power.

I can't really be offended by your take on scripture, it's not like I wrote it. It's either true or it's not, say whatever you want.

What's the difference in attributing things that happen to either God, or to chance? Not sure I follow why attributing it to God is any more detrimental to mental health than whatever other reason causes these things. You still have to try your best regardless.

Attributing one's problems to chance is also externalizing.

Psychological health (and its positive effects on one's wallet and personal relationships) has instead been consistently associated with:

attributing one's problems to oneself alone (see Locus of Control).

After all, you are the common denominator to everything that is or isn't in your life.

I'm not sure that attributing one's problems to oneself needs to be mutually exclusive to there being a God. I wouldn't blame God for me failing a test if I didn't study for it.

I haven't read the link yet, only skimmed it, but I'll take a look.

Edit: Kinda silly, but just for fun: Locus of control test.

This is true, but there are also circumstances in where the opposite holds true (perhaps more often in older generations).

If most people took full responsibility and internalised their problems, society would function far smoother, and many of the large problems we're facing currently would be a lot easier to deal with.

Considering the current conversation, its funny that question 2 is "I am superstitious".

I'm not sure to be honest, so I can't even agree or disagree with you at this point.

I got 51/49 in favour of internal locus on that test, though I'm not sure what that really implies, I just like answering the questions. I could do the Myers-Briggs all day.

Yeah, I saw that. Some of these questions are a bit ambiguous, but whatever. I don't know how much you can get from 30 questions.

Edit: I'm out. Have a good one.

Ignoring greed, desire for money or prestige, if achieving means anything to you then the implication is that you're not likely to achieve much until your perspective shifts more toward 'internal'. This is at least what the research suggests, but I'm sure there's some people who have achieved incredible things and continue to externalize all their efforts and circumstances. Research mainly cares about the 'average' or 'majority'. Some fall outside of this majority.

It appeared to me that you thought their deaths were less important because they we not aware of your god and/or because they lived in a poor area...

Did I misunderstand you?

I don't feel that this is the tact God would have one take at all, that is, the externalization of problems and blind obedience to existing power structures.

Why is my country a mess? answer - How consistent are the laws with God's and what have I done to institute His laws?

Why did my wife cheat on me? answer - Did I not threaten her with execution if she would do so? Did I not provide food shelter and clothing for her? (according to the law)

Why is the animal body I'm living in getting sick, and why must it eventually die? answer - have I done anything to piss God off? Did I eat that which was unclean?

Why are the Catholic priests molesting boys? answer - have I sought out to execute justice as prescribed by the law? Did God not destroy the only temple he's authorized and abolish the priesthood? Why do I allow this abomination to exist?

Why won't God make me rich? answer - Am I not an undisciplined savage who would do massive amounts of hookers and blow?

Meh...let the dead bury the dead.

God has glorified his name and made his ways well known. Toss reincarnation into the mix and it just doesn't matter.

Because of your inaction, or lack of power to change things - which is also because of you.
Because of your inability to provide to her everything she needed, and because of your poor choice in women.
Because everybody dies, as everybody poops. If you're getting very sick before old age though, that would be largely on you, your eating habits and lifestyle choices.
Because of your inaction and lack of power to change things. If you cared enough you'd look for ways to gain the power necessary to make the changes you want.
I think by now, you may be able to guess the answer to this. Personally, I think its because you keep externalizing all your problems, as evident in the full version of this post of yours.

I cringe at having to quote the same old clichés but you can have as much or as little influence on your life and the world around you, as you so choose. You're not powerless and in the hands of the will of a God, or any of his plans or laws.

If your God was not a tyrant, he would give you the freedom to make your own decisions, without fearing that they might not align with his plans.

I think you just rephrased my answers and added a little taunting. Notice the I's. The externalization/internalization part wasn't lost on me...

As to God being a tyrant...It's absurd.

He's the only able to see how everything fits together and make the rules in such a way that the selfish won't oppress others. He's the only one capable of balancing societal well being with individual happiness.

But, I know this is all somewhat rhetorical to you, as you don't believe he exists.