Besides Satan and his band, there are still 100% good angels who possess free will. How is that even possible according to Christian theology?

no it wouldnt

So did "the necessity of things to be created" need to be created, or might it have arisen on its own?

Bravo. I never grow tired of seeing the many subtle ways one can use self serving serving ad hoc reasoning to be a Christian. A nice variation on "all things have to have a creator/designer... except for God."

Sure, its total BS and unconvincing but the persistance you guys use it is charming.

The necessity of things to be created was not itself subject to the necessity of things to be created at the time of its origination. However, this does not rule out the possibility of other criteria according to which some things not requiring creation nevertheless don't originate.

I dont even know how a heaven thats 100% good works with free will. Apparently it does though.

You called my bluff. I didn't think you'd be able to continue to take this concept, of God creating "the necessity of things to be created", seriously. I find the reification highly implausible, but as kurto said, bravo.

God created everything in the natural order, including any necessity of matter or logic you can mention.

does stating it is so make it feel real for you? Because that holds as much weight as me saying that a giant universal slug pooed out God. It is true because I say so. No further discussion necessary.

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! Its easy being a believer when I can just make up stuff at my whim and assume its true.

Apparently no further discussion is even possible, judging by the contents of your latest contributions to this thread.

its odd that you quoted me with something I didn't say....

Oops... my bad. I see. Out of context it threw you. But it misses my point. If you arbitrarily declare something true, like you do about what God did, and expect everyone to accept it. No further discussion....

unmade maker? hmmmm...

Weird ramblings. I fully comprehended the cute little device you were using. In your too-clever-by-half jumpiness you misunderstood my response to convey something not intended.

It is not arbitrary, but have fun in your discussion-free solipsism.

Sigh. Maybe because the nongood ones are part of Satan's band?

Yeah, what?

Yeah, what, what? Where are all the human-like angels who do some good and some evil?

Saying that humans are only evil because they have free will is the BIGGEST excuse in the book. Just LOOK at all the other good angels with free will. What do they have that we and Satan's angels don't...better willpower??

Humans are good too if they choose to be, just like the angels chose. I'm not sure what you mean exactly.

Why does God choose to create those people whom he knows will behave badly? Why not just create the people who will use their free will for good?

you can claim its not arbitrary yet you have you other reason to believe what you claim to be true then it allows you to create some premise that justifies your preconceived belief. In fact that there is no evidence to support your belief and that your belief is no more plausible then any other religion's claims or that your God was created through slug poop.

Theists have no problem demanding a creation for the universe. It HAS to be made. Everything has to be made. But when that logic is turned on your God, it is simply disregarded. No consistancy needed there! Sorry, its arbitrary and without basis except that it feels good to you. As I started saying in the beginning of this thread, Christians present self serving and contradictory reasoning at their whim. Circular reasoning? No problem. Toss your own logic away when it doesn't work for you? Naturally.

I imagine if what you posted wasn't as I stated, you would simply provide some evidence that all could see showing why the universe needs a creator but your God doesn't. Though I suspect we're left with the remark you preferred to focus on... no discussion necessary. You stated it as a fact, we're all supposed to just take you at your word?

mr. and mrs. God did

This is the only part of your rambling post I could find something in to respond to. The OP asks a question which presupposes God exists, so I answered accordingly.

Since neither side can prove its conclusion, and a battle of unproven premises quickly degenerates into ******ed insults, the way the OP framed the question is the way to go and the way I answered.

but your response to the OPs question is just cirular reasoning, my original point. If you go with the premise that everything needs a creator, simply stopping at God because you define God as not needing a creator is fallacious. The argument amounts to "because I say so."

I never said that.

Yeah, the premise is that everything created needs a creator. Just like everything good comes from God and God can only do good things. These are powerful and unshakable concepts. If only they were logical.

poty