It isn't under my authority to include or exclude anyone. That is God's authority. On the OP topic, this is another way to affirm Christ's deity.

Presumably you agree with God's (Jesus') decision to deny people a blissful afterlife.

knew that was going to be your answer. You presumably think that its either
1) a good, and moral, system
and/or
2) that the author of this system is worthy of your worship no matter what

If you believed God existed you would have to believe in 2) as an absolute minimum imo.

I mean, present me with an all powerful being who has all knowledge of everything past, present, and future, and responsibility for creating the entire universe and everything in it, and I don't see how you could do anything other than worship and submit to their authority.

It would be head-explodingly arrogant to assume you know better about anything when compared to a being with infinite power and perspective. Human beings know literally almost nothing when we compare "What we know" to "all things which could be known, past, present and future."

I mean, at best, it would be like if you woke up one day, and you looked around, and you were on a smooth black floor as far as the eye could see. No matter how far you walked or what you did, it was just endless smooth black floor without variation.

Now actually, you're a microscopic piece of dust on an intergalactic four dimensional chess board. God is one of the players, and also the inventor of the game, with the ability to instantly see all possible outcomes, and the ability to play a perfect game. You, on the other hand, have no ability to see any other squares, let alone any other pieces, no idea what the rules of the game are, or even that you're playing a game, and even if you did you wouldn't have the mental ability to play well enough to win or the physical prowess to move any of the pieces.

I mean really, in that scenario, who is better equipped to make decisions regarding the chess game?

I don't believe in God. But if I did and if I believed all the things Christans and The Bible say about God, worship really is the only option that makes sense imo.

Yeah, the OT kills babies and burns down cities and ****s with Pharoahs and drowns them in big lakes. He lets teenagers get eaten by bears and turns people into salt. From my perspective, sure, he's kind of a dick sometimes. The problem is that when you compare my perspective and ability to Gods, there's no contest.

Satanist dont agree with two.


I could also imagine a version of God who would not want worship. Having someone worship you might get on the nerves of an ego-less all everything being.

PART 1 OF 4

ALTER2EGO -to- MANGLER241:
I understand and interpret you very well. Not only do you claim you don't believe in the Trinity, but you have consistently defended those who believe it despite the Shema at Deuteronomy 6:4 which says Jehovah is ONE, and despite the fact that the ancient Israelites were monotheistic.

"Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is ONE Jehovah." (Deuteronomy 6:4)

ALTER2EGO -to- MANGLER241:
Is that what you're doing? Loving Jehovah God and trusting Jesus Christ when you get on a public forum arguing that Trinitarianism isn't a bad thing? If you truly loved Jehovah and trusted Jesus Christ, why would you be putting so much effort into the defense of an obvious false doctrine aka the Trinity which takes away worship from Jehovah and makes a mockery of Jesus' sacrificial death?

ALTER2EGO -to- MANGLER241:
Spoken like a true Trinitarian. You've now become an apologist for Trinitarianism while claiming you are not one of them. This is your idea of loving God and trusting Jesus Christ? You cannot do either unless you love Biblical truth—which you have demonstrated you do not.

PART 2 OF 4

ALTER2EGO -to- MANGLER241:
Stop lying. You are Trinitarian to the core. That's why you're so vigorously defending the falsehood by minimizing the seriousness of it, while presenting scriptures that you think are proof of Trinity. You are seriously in denial—insisting you're not Trinitarian while heartily promoting it.


The Trinity is nothing more than traditions of men. Jehovah punished the ancient Israelites repeatedly for putting traditions of men above spiritual truths that resulted in their participation in pagan worship. He withdraw his protection and allowed the Babylonians and then the Romans to destroy Jerusalem, and then he ended his covenant with the Israelites and left them to be scattered to the nations. That is their condition to this day. The Israelites are no longer God's chosen people.



To show the seriousness of polluting true worship with traditions of men, during the 1st century AD, Jesus Christ reminded the religious Pharisees of what Jehovah had previously told their predecessors by means of the Prophet Isaiah, as follows:

"{6} he must not honor his father at all. And so you have made the word of god invalid because of your tradition. {7} You hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about you, when he said, {8} ‘This people honor me with their lips, yet their heart is far removed from me. {9} It is IN VAIN that they keep worshipping me, because they teach COMMANDS OF MEN as doctrines.’" (Matthew 15:6-9)

PART 3 OF 4

ALTER2EGO -to- MANGLER241:
And to think: you accused Jehovah's Witnesses of heresy. But here you are announcing on the open forum that you are sure the Trinitarians have "good reasons" for turning a monotheistic God into a 3-prong polytheistic god.

To show how messed up your thinking is, you come right out in the next sentence and decided to play God by declaring: "I'm even more sure that "G-d" is quite forgiving if they have false ideas or doctrines."


Jehovah allowed his once chosen people, the ancient Israelites, to be slaughtered and enslaved by the Babylonians and then by the Romans—because of false worship. But here you are promoting falsehood and telling this forum that the same God that punished the ancient Israelites for paganism will forgive Trinitarians who have split him up into a triune god!



Regarding the destruction of the ancient Israelites by the Babylonians because of false worship, the Bible says:

"{58} And they kept offending him with their high places [Baal worship], and with their graven images they kept inciting him to jealousy. {59} God heard and got to be furious, and HE CONDEMNED ISRAEL very much. {60} And he finally FORSOOK THE TABERNACLE of Shiloh, the tent in which he resided among earthling men. {61} And he proceeded to give his strength even to captivity and his beauty into the hands of the adversary. {62} And he kept handing over his people to the sword itself, and against his inheritance he became furious. {63} His young men a fire ate up, and his virgins were not praised. {64} As for his priests, they fell by the very sword, and their own widows did not give way to weeping." (Psalms 78:58-64)



Just in case you think that only applied to people in the Old Testament, the Bible leaves us in no doubt about what we should expect if we do the same things that got the ancient Israelites slaughtered. It took the warning straight into the New Testament--which applies to Christians.


"Now these thing went on befalling them as examples, and they were written for a warning to us upon whom the ends of the systems of things have arrived." (1 Corinthians 10:11)

PART 4 OF 4

ALTER2EGO -to- MANGLER241:
Let me try something, because you appear to be far gone in terms of your ability to reason on the scriptures. I challenge you to answer the following questions.

Question #1 to Mangler241: Who was it that said Jesus was equal to God? Was it the apostate Jews saying it, or was it Jesus Christ?

Question #2 to Mangler241: When the apostate Jews accused Jesus of making himself equal to God, did he agree with them? For the answer, notice the red-bolded words within your own quotation, copied below, which you ignored despite its contextual relevance.

ALTER2EGO -to- MANGLER241:
Jesus said at John 5:19 that he cannot do anything unless he sees the Father doing it. He thereby contradicted the apostate Jews who were accusing him of being equal to God. In case John 5:19 didn't penetrate your Trinitarian thinking, notice the following verse, which is again in Jesus' own words and are in the very same book of John. Then answer the question that follows.

"You heard that I said to you, I am going away and I am coming back to you. If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going my way to the father, because THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN I AM." (John 14:28)

Question #3 to Mangler241: Who are you going to believe, Mangler241? Are you going to believe the apostates who accused Jesus of being equal to Jehovah? Or are you going to take Jesus at his word?


Regarding the above three questions:
1st TIME ASKING.



I WILL ANSWER THE OTHER PARTS OF YOUR POST AT A LATER TIME.

With Hashem ("G-d") as my witness, you are incorrect in so many different ways, I don't know where I should start and where I should finish. Before I start, let me say may Hashem bless you and lead you through the Ruach HaKodesh into the saving gospel of grace in Yeshua HaMashiach ( "Christ Jesus" ).

You hardly understood my statement at all. Most important of all: you don't understand that you are accepting false teaching from Jehovah's Witnesses - they are not Witnesses for Hashem, the One True "G-d", but they are walking in darkness. If you continue to be with them or accept teaching from them, you will continue to walk in darkness apart from the true Messiah Yeshua and never have the assurance of salvation that the apostle John states in his first epistle. I strongly urge that if you want to find, seek and accept the truth of the gospel that saves, you will have to be willing to essentially disassociate with every Jehovah's Witness that you now know, a personal sacrifice that you will have to make ( unless any of them have a keen interest in following Yeshua HaMashiach and serving the One True "G-d" ). It will be well worth it, not only for your personal salvation, but so that you can be an effective instrument to be used by "G-d" for the "true gospel" that saves. There are many former Jehovah's Witnesses that now preach the "Good News" and also give testimony about the deceit they escaped from.

At the time of "Jesus" or Yeshua, there were no "Jehovah's Witnesses", no Watch Tower Society and some would argue, no "Jehovah"! So without Jehovah's Witnesses, how did that thief being crucified beside Yeshua "get saved"? Simply by trusting in Yeshua HaMashiach! This is essentially the idea of "faith" and the Protestant Reformation; no amount of works will make one iota of difference for one's salvation - rather, one is saved from "G-d's wrath" ( which all mature human beings deserve for their failure to act in accordance to Hashem's perfect standard ) by putting their belief, faith and trust in the "Living Word/Torah", Yeshua HaMashiach ( "the Lord Jesus Christ" ).

That translation of the Tetragrammaton the Jehovah's Witnesses use ("Jehovah") is a mix of the consonants J,H,V,H ( which some would already argue is an "incorrect" transliteration of the Tetragrammaton ) and the vowels from Adonai ( Hebrew for "LORD" ) and is essentially a fabrication. Almost all, if not all, of the early talmidim ( = "disciples" ) of Yeshua were Jewish and knew the true name of "G-d" which was not "Jehovah" but represented by the Hebrew letters yodh, heh, waw and heh. Not only that, Yeshua was a Torah observant Jew ( he obeyed all the commands of his Father set out in the Tanakh ) who sided with the "house of Hillel", taught the correct completion of the Torah, gave up his life willingly in obedience to His Father, even though he was the "Divine Word".

If you really understand me and have interpreted correctly, you would not have written such a post.

You can come back to me on this once you've looked at the Hebrew text of Dt 6:4 and given me a good reason to translate the original Hebrew text of the Tetragrammaton as "Jehovah" or renounce the use of that name for "G-d" once and for all.

Do you not know the proper name of Hashem ( "G-d" ) ? It is not "Jehovah"!

How and where did I defend Trinitarianism? I think it was with idea of love and compassion for human beings that may have technically inaccurate doctrine; if you analyze the text you wrote just before your quoting of the NWT translation of Dt 6:4, yes I defend that human beings have the right to be incorrect! On the other hand, I'm not here to defend scripturally the doctrine of the Trinity and nowhere in my posts have I done this and I see nothing wrong with taking scriptures that seem to show that the Trinity doctrine is at the very least hinted at.

I'll defend a "Christian" that has repented, believes in the Trinity, believes "YHWH" is "G-d", believes in Yeshua as the Mashiach and seeks to obeys the commands of Hashem and has a zeal to give testimony about the "Good News" and "Jesus Christ", and especially those that are persecuted. IMHO, if the Trinity doctrine is "incorrect" ( as I believe it is ), and if a believer believes it, and is also doing his/her utmost to "love G-d and neighbor", he/she is doing G-d's will. If anything, you are mocking the "risen Lord Jesus Christ" who is "YHWH in the flesh" by making him out to be a created being and less than the "divine" being he is. One should be focussed on helping human beings on living full lives in serving "G-d" and "neighbor". Taking away worship from "Jehovah" is fine because true worship belongs to the One True G-d, "YHWH", the "G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob", even the "G-d" of Yeshua HaMashiach! From your testimony, as an "ambassador for Jehovah", I can see now that "Jehovah" is a false god.

I'm not Trinitarian, and sure, if pressed, I can give many of the same verses Trinitarian apologists will use in defending why they believe in the Trinity. No, "loving G-d" is equivalent to obeying the commands of Hashem; Jews, including Yeshua HaMashiach, equate that with observing all 613 mitzvot ( 248 positive and 365 negative ) of the Torah. Yeshua is the administrator of the renewed convenant, so one should be united with him so as to have the "Spiritual Torah" written on hearts rather than on stone. Trusting Yeshua means that I believe he has the words of eternal life, not merely he existed and is the sacrifice for the sins of humanity.

That last sentence of yours only represents your biased opinion. If anything, since you don't seem to want to understand the original text in the original language, you having nothing intellectually honest to say concerning what Yeshua or his talmidim had to say. You're using a theologically biased translation (NWT) in English from a "Christian cult" ( as classified by Walter Martin and many others ) to lead believers and nonbelievers astray.

Wow, with Hashem ( "G-d" ) as my witness I am not Trinitarian. I can see that Hasatan has darkened your heart that you can't see the truth. You have no idea of who I am because the truth is not in you; for if the truth were in you, you would know the truth, but you don't know the truth because I am not a Trinitarian!

Sovereign Adonai: May this human being represented by "Alter2Ego" be led to the truth of the gospel of Yeshua HaMashiach and the "One True G-d", the "G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob" and have mercy on her (his?) soul.

Amen.

Spoken like a true supersessionist. "YHWH's" conventant was with the Jews. Yeshua ( "Jesus" ) was a Torah observing Jew and so was Paul who wrote many of the New Testament epistles.

You have made the "Word of G-d" ( a.k.a. the "bible" ) invalid because of your Jehovah's Witness' tradition. What's "my tradition"?

Spoken in a dead language, written down in ancient language, translated to modern language to be interpreted 50,000 different ways by men who can't agree on the color of piss.

Sounds like a divine plan to me.

You've misquoted me, just like when you've misquoted the "Word of G-d" ( as in "the bible" ) which you think you cherish, but not in knowledge, but in ignorance of the "One True G-d", "YHWH", and in ignorance of the True Mashiach, Yeshua. Jehovah's Witnesses worship "Jehovah", not the "One True G-d", for any practicing Jew ( who worships Hashem ) knows the name of G-d was not "Jehovah". "Jehovah" is the false G-d you worship and Jehovah's Witnesses are not in any way whatsoever, "G-d's organization" on earth; if anything, the Watch Tower Society is influenced heavily by ha-Satan. You think you are doing "G-d's work", but in reality, you are leading people away from the "true gospel of Jesus Christ" that leads to life.

Almost all modern day "Christian Trinitarians" are not pagan. Jews are still Hashem's chosen people. Once again, you're misusing biblical literature, but even if you weren't, you're doing this without much love or compassion.

Are you so ignorant of Hebrew and who uses that language?

Some might think this is a false dichotomy from reading the text of Jn 5:18 !



No. In fact, this is one reason the doctrine of the Trinity can be rejected; however, you must realize that the language of the formulation of the Trinity may be inaccurate but the portrayal that Hashem, "G-d" and the Ruach HaKodesh ( "Holy Spirit" ) are all "divine" or at the very least "on the same side" is what is at issue here. The other question is: what was the purpose of the formulation of the doctrine of the Trinity?

One of the other passages that convinced me that Yeshua ( technically, "the Logos" ) was not as great as the Father was Gen 41:39-40, but that passage also convinced me that Yeshua was "YHWH in human form."
I put my trust and faith in the words of Yeshua because he has the "words of eternal life" as the "Rock" stated in Jn 6:68. One should be careful though; those words you've cited are in English, but Yeshua spoke Aramaic and/or Hebrew.

Now that I've answered you sincerely with the best of my understanding of the biblical text, perhaps you can be so kind to answer some questions, too?

You can use the NWT or any English translation that is "reasonable" ( you be the judge! ) to answer some questions here:

1) Who is speaking in Rev 1:8 ?

2) Who is speaking in Rev 21:6-7 ?

3) Who is speaking in Rev 22:12-13 ?

4) Who is speaking in Rev 1:17-18 ?

5) Are you sure your answers are "correct"?