Honestly just asking out of curiosity (not to start a flame war). And by "unbelief" I don't mean going from theism to agnosticism/atheism, but rather just theism to deism.

I know Jib has mentioned something before, but I forget the exact details and wouldn't want to misquote him.

Also if your answer is "nothing" perhaps you can explain a bit why that is.

(yes the thread title is a play on Pletho's thread title, but hopefully the content in this thread will be different)

Most of the atheists in this forum were believers at some point in their lives. We all came to "unbelieve" for a variety of reasons.

What I would like to know is what would it take for the Jibs, Splendours, Plethos, Concertos, and NotReadies of this forum to decide that they had devoted their lives to following a lie.

The anihilation of the human race/universe would give me grave doubts that God interferes in the world.

taking a biology course?

i kid i kid

out of curiosity, would you say the same if the world population was reduced to 15,000?

well obviously not cause the world's population was reduced to like 10 people after the flood

I think one of the most effective ways to make a believer to unbelieve is to give them their respective holy book to read.

Like the rest of us -
Mainly - under 25.
- in learning mode.
If you get through those inquisitive, testing years and are still a theist the odds are long you're not going to shake it. As you settle in to your life and start to become more stable and conservative ( relatively) it would take a powerful emotional jolt to shake someone enough to get their attention. Loss of a child in a horrible way ( not that there are good ways) sometimes does it for those that are in the theism camp for more emotional needs than others may be.

Total or partial? In the bible god did a partial annihilation so how would that be a doubt for you that god doesn't exust

Your question is a contradiction within it's own wording.

In order to become a believer you have to be born-again. It's a spiritual birth and just like you cannot reverse your own physical existence (birth), you cannot reverse a spiritual existence (birth).

Basically I am saying that you cannot reverse the new-birth, its a done deal, and you are sealed with holy spirit on the inside, which is why its called a spiritual birth, because you receive something new, that you did not previously have.

On the other hand it is possible to be brought up in a church going, bible believing, hard handed religious family and THINK you are a Christian, CONFESS you are a Christian, and BELIEVE you are a Christian BUT not actually be born-again and have holy spirit.

Happens all the time. This forum is filled with people who come from that type of background and are now self proclaimed atheists or agnostics. Mainly due to the wrong doctrine they were taught as a child, and the strict religious rules, hypocrisy etc... you name it, that surrounds these types of seemingly Christian families who go to church every sunday in their new shiny clothes. Just to be in the good graces of church, community or out of guilt, thinking that's the only way to be loved of God and doing God's will.

Cliff notes:

-Nothing would convince Pletho that god doesn't exist
-Anyone who claims to have once been a Christian but who is now an atheist never properly believed in god in the first place.

I was born again through jesus and now I'm an unbeliever... you probably think I did it wrong, huh?

I like how these Yin/Yang threads pop up in RGT. lol

You must not have handled the snakes properly.

It would have to be Total.

Suppose it was partial and it turned out that I was the only one left alive. Well then that would be evidence of God fine tuning the anihilation.........jk.

How are you defining deism?

No other way for you to become nonbeliever? skepticism doesn't cut it for you?

The problem is you wouldn't be a nonbeliever. You wouldn't be anything besides dead.

Won't speak for dknightx, but I would assume belief in a non-interventionist, First-Cause/Uncaused Cause kind of deity who doesn't do much except write the universal program and hit "go" without any other supernatural connotations.

So is this a purposeful intelligent creator? just to be clear

To pose as an unbeliever or truly not believe?

Hmm, I'm in too deep. I've "seen" too much. I could only pretend at this point.

Perhaps if I came to the conclusion that the lake of fire is total annihilation and thought that, well, I got booted out of heaven in the first place, I guess I didn't like it that much anyway.

Then maybe at the end of a 40 day fast, I got offered the world and I took it.

Still, I can't and I won't, because its all vanity.

Not sure how intelligent the creator would be if he writes a program of such kind in which his creation lives short lives full of pain and suffering. Most of the created life becomes food for other life, many die of disease and hunger, others in some other circumstances, for majority of that created life survival, food and passing of it's genetic code is all that matters.

If we are a program that this must be a program of a being that does not realize how much pain it's inflicting on the created life.

As I explained in the design thread, skepticism prevents a coherent world veiw.

Yeah....that kinda makes if difficult to come to a definitive conclusion.

in what way? can you explain?