My comment is about actual real demonic beings. Nothing to do with the concept of evil being necessary or not.

Just to note, I was referring to the Judeo-Christian definition of evil, as that is what I thought the discussion was about. If you are referring to a different definition, then I'm happy to reconsider.

What is your idea of "the Judeo-Christian definition of evil"?

Some consideration should be given to that to which we all entertain. Expressions or feelings like courage, envy, hate, love, or even thoughts in like manner, display their happenings with a lack of understanding by most.

In the case of "envy" some might say "I am envious" or another might be repelled by the same feeling and attempt to efface or at least come to grips with this inner happening ; likewise the feeling of "courage" or "hate", etc...

Many, upon consideration, would only see themselves as "envious" and stop there. They may not care for the feeling but what they do with it is up to the individual man.

The understanding is that there is a "being of envy" or a "being of love" or a "being of courage" or a "being of hate" to which the individual soul is immersed. You, the individual man, are not "hate" or "love" or "envy" but are experiencing the beings of love, hate, envy, etc...

It is a cosmos of the living and it is of course possible and does happen that the individual man can be so "immersed in hate" that untoward events occur, both to the man and his external manifestations.

An important consideration here is that while immersed within "love" or "hate', etc.. the soul is in the supersensible world and upon return the human being's cognitive ability then brings forth the supersensible in thoughts which morph into words through the larynx into the word "hate'.

The word "demonic" in our times obfuscates for it has the aura of the sensational and doesn't allow for proper comprehension of the the inner workings of the human being. Touch it and it gives off a stink bomb for rational consideration of inner events.

"Moldova sucks" and so does potassium.

If you are claiming that microbes or bacteria are malevolent, I think thats quite a stretch

Seems like the dictionary backs me on this but you can use "pernicious" or another synonym instead if you prefer.

I dont think you can claim that bacteria have a wish to do evil.

Didn't human civilization move past the thinking that disease was caused by Evil, Sin, and God's Wrath about 450 years ago?

I'll be a nit but only to illustrate a point. An important one.

You can claim that bacteria or a virus or a mosquito have a wish to do evil; but please provide the verifiable evidence and logic that confirms such a conclusion.

We are at post #58 of this post and all that has been discussed is the motivation of the author and the viability of the Scientific Method. I get the sense from everyone that is commenting on this thread that nobody actually believes that the good doctor's story is accurate.

I have to imagine that with hundreds of "verifiable" exorcists working around the world and thousands (actual numbers are not easy to find) of exorcisms taking place every year (this is very conservative, the head exorcist for the Catholic Church claims to have done 160,000 by himself). In all of this exorcism action occurring, there has never been a verified event. It does not seem unlikely that what people think is happening is based in reality.

What do you mean by "evil is real"? Real in what sense?

I think if we define a set of events G as good and desirable, then there will of course be a set of events E that is bad and undesirable, the worst examples of which we go a bit further and name "evil".

It's a valid concept. But how do you get from "people do bad things" to "powerful spirits enter people's bodies and take over their souls", such that only modern-day sorcerers mumbling spells can remove the spirits? That's a bit of a leap, no?

People harm other people with callous disregard for others. No arguments here. What does this have to do with the claim that evil spirits enter the body of people and make them do bad stuff, such that they can only be cured by a Catholic Priest throwing water and mumbling spells?

I could easily claim the same about alien abduction. Why does the existence of callous disregard for the wellbeing of others lead to the likelihood that alien abduction is true? If you can't answer that, why does it lead to the likelihood that spirits enter people's bodies and make them sick?

A couple:

Evil is the good out of time.

Evil is the suppression or control of the Ego of a man.

For the first, a relevant story. thee was a time about the 6th century when individual human beings had developed to such an extent that they literally had reached the point to which we stand today. On speaks of the Greek philosophers traveling to the great civilization at Bagdad as the roman Empire literally denied the Greek philosophy/science/etc..and even burned the library(s) of Alexandria.

The problem with these great thinkers/scientists/doctors was that they had advanced so far that the rest of mankind could not and would not have developed to that state. These elite thinkers had gained this knowledge via revelation and were a special few. If the evolution of Man were to continue in the above state then the overwhelming bulk of mankind would have precipitated into a degenerate state, with a few elitists, to which they would not have been able to climb out of.

Remembering that this advanced state of human beings worked within 'revelation", that to which necessitated a "trance" consciousness as apposed to a ego centered consciousness that most have today. And so, as mankind is not alone there arose the expression of that to which the individual man came to a streaking stop in order for his fellow human beings to 'catch up" (actually move ahead for all), so to speak.

The world of Muhammad arose and the call was "submit" and all that comes with this cry. Muhammad was the human expression of higher beings who care for the development of the human race. And so one might say that there was an advent of darkness to which the light could arrive to each soul.

Now this "submission" is preached today but is out of time and so I'll walk into the next room and see what arrives. Thanx.

Important note; you and I were there or at least in the environs for there is no development of the human being without reincarnation and karma. We may not have been Greek or lived in the middle east but influences proceed in time and space.

I apologize for grunching but has the man OP is talking about provided any evidence for his claim that he has observed someone using a dead language perfectly (without first knowing it)? I find that unbelievable and also think failure to provide such evidence pretty much discredits the rest of his claims.

The definition of demon doesn't specify that it has to have a mind of its own nor it have to have "wishes" . It could just be doing what it is naturally prone to do, cause harm to humans. So in that way it is quite similar to a pathogen or any infectious agent that attacks the human body.

The definition of malevolent is "wishing to do evil" . You said bacteria were malevolent

So this phenomena is called Xenoglossy and judging from the 'notable claims' section of its wiki article it's just a bunch of hooey.

Question for the philosophers: what's more likely to be true?

- Alien abduction?
- Demonic possession?

Why is that a question for philosophers?

If the question is which is more plausible, alien abduction is likely more plausible as aliens are more likely plausibly true than demons. We can see with telescopes where aliens might come from and can imagine a variety of abduction motives from recorded experience.

I will lay fourteen to one on aliens.

Those are terrible odds.... For you.

Id bet on the unknown powers of the human mind before either.

Alien abductions don't disobey the known laws of physics.

Does esp disobey physics? Because you dont need to levitate, you just need to get others see it.

Either way even breaking the known laws of physics should be in there if demons get to be.

More i think about it breaking the known laws of physics with our minds should be higher then aliens anyway. I cant think of a good reason why they would take over our bodies having us speak Latin, floating us around the room and spitting and such. I guess maybe comedic value or something, but it makes no sense.