Table 23: A Saints Church - Page 5 - Religion, God, and Theology

God: King, Innocent, Fearless

Open your Bibles to John Chapter 18

-Jesus is King.

-Judas betrays Jesus and leads armed officers in the night to apprehend Him. Jesus is like, Are you looking for Me? He knows His Father's will. He knows His purpose on Earth. In laying down His life, He is overcoming sin on Earth for all believers.

-Believers have trouble with their faith. They don't see things clearly as Jesus does. They aren't as bold as Jesus is. Take Peter for instance.

-Pilate doesn't see anything wrong with Jesus. Also, "Are you a king...Yea, I'm a king."

-So, what does this all mean? It means Jesus is awesome.

03-29-2014 , 01:37 PM

#102

thekid345

banned

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 3,616

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Eddy

Judaism is the Old Covenant but it also shows "types" of Christ or shadows of Christ. Jesus was Jewish and He had to be Jewish to give meaning to the things He did to bring in the New Covenant. It is possible to be saved as a Jew but you have to obey the Law without fault -- but no one can do that.

You should also note that in Judaism, Jesus is generally referred to as a false Messiah. Based on this, would you consider most Jews to be following a false religion?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Eddy

Islam is in essence "Judaism for Arabs". It is not a true faith that connects with Judaism and Christianity although they share the tie to Abraham. Islam rejects the concept that Jesus is God and therefore is a false religion.

Sincerely,
Super Eddy

Islam and Judaism share many similarities, for example in dietary means, the Kosher/Halal food process is similar in the sense that Jews and Muslims seek to treat the animal with the utmost respect.

As for how Islam views Jesus otherwise known as Isa,

In Islam, Jesus is considered to be a messenger of God. A very important and well respected figure in Islam, Jesus is known as possessing the ability to heal and cure the blind. In Islam, Jesus was born to the virgin Mary, but through the angel Gabriel as opposed to God.

In addition the Quran says that righteous Jews, Christians, Sabians can get into heaven, this is one of many reasons I greatly respect Islam.

Supper Eddy, Citi,

I think its important to notify readers of this thread who may be Jewish/Muslim/Atheist/other that they dont have to convert to Christianity in order to be accepted. I feel that non Christians can be recognized(based on the Bible) as good people so long as they commit good deeds.

03-30-2014 , 08:41 AM

#103

Louis Cyphre

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Quote:

Originally Posted by thekid345

Islam and Judaism share many similarities, for example in dietary means, the Kosher/Halal food process is similar in the sense that Jews and Muslims seek to treat the animal with the utmost respect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhabihah

Quote:

Opponents of dhabīḥah ḥalāl, most notably some animal welfare groups, contend that this method of slaughter "causes severe suffering to animals" compared to when the animal is stunned before slaughter. In the United Kingdom, the government funded but independent advisory body Farm Animal Welfare Council recommended that conventional dhabīḥah (along with kosher slaughter (sheḥitah)) without prior stunning be abolished. The FAWC chairwoman of the time, Dr Judy MacArthur Clark, said, "This is a major incision into the animal and to say that it doesn't suffer is quite ridiculous." According to Dr Peter Jinman, president of the British Veterinary Association, vets are "looking at what is acceptable in the moral and ethical society we live."[14] Muslims counter this by referring to the problems connected with stunning and the benefits of slaughter without stunning.[15]
It is argued that this method of slaughter leaves the spinal cord, and thus the capacity to feel pain until death, intact.[16]
The UK Farm Animal Welfare Council says that the method by which kosher and halal meat is produced causes severe suffering to animals and it should be banned immediately.[17] According to FAWC it can take up to two minutes for cattle to bleed to death, thus amounting to animal abuse. Compassion in World Farming also supported the recommendation saying "We believe that the law must be changed to require all animals to be stunned before slaughter."[18][19] The UK government rejected its recommendations.
Various research papers on cattle slaughter collected by Compassion In World Farming mention that "after the throat is cut, large clots can form at the severed ends of the carotid arteries, leading to occlusion of the wound (or "ballooning" as it is known in the slaughtering trade). Nick Cohen wrote in the New Statesman, "Occlusions slow blood loss from the carotids and delay the decline in blood pressure that prevents the suffering brain from blacking out. In one group of calves, 62.5 per cent suffered from ballooning. Even if the slaughterman is a master of his craft and the cut to the neck is clean, blood is carried to the brain by vertebral arteries and it keeps cattle conscious of their pain.[20] "Experiments carried out by the principal of the Swedish Veterinary Institute (Veterinärhögskolan') by order of the Swedish government in 1925 and published in 1928 determined that the blood carried to the brain by the vertebral arteries in bovines is reduced after slaughter by the Jewish method shehitah from 1/30 to 1/40, and on the basis of this and one other experiment Professor Axel Sahlstedt declared the method humane and not cruel. However, on the basis of other experiments that had showed different results, Sahlstedt recommended post-stunning as standard.[21]
However, in a study between 1974 and 1978 Wilhelm Schulze and his colleagues carried out a study at the School of Veterinary Medicine, Hannover University in Germany: "Attempts to Objectify Pain and Consciousness in Conventional (captive bolt pistol stunning) and Ritual (knife) Methods of Slaughtering Sheep and Calves"[22] is reported on Islamic websites[23][24] to have concluded that "the Islamic way of slaughtering is the most humane method of slaughter and that captive bolt stunning, practiced in the West, causes severe pain to the animal." However, recent studies have countered the Schulze study, which is dated and relied on older EEG measurement techniques. Dr. Schulze himself also warned in his report that the stunning technique may not have functioned properly.

Last edited by Louis Cyphre; 03-30-2014 at 08:43 AM. Reason: added emphasis

03-30-2014 , 10:12 AM

#104

Citi

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Posts: n/a

Sunday Recap

-Table 23 is a Christ-centered church. The only valid type of church before God the Creator.

-Jesus (God) is the only way that man (who is guilty of sin) to be found innocent before God the Father. Jesus calls out to men to believe in Him. Believe that He is God. Believe that He is the way. He came to save men that were given to Him by the Father. His believers will follow. They will recognize His calling. They will inherit His kingdom, which is not of this temporary world. Sinful men (creatures) disagree with Jesus. They say Jesus has it wrong. They say our way is the right way. They say Jesus is evil. They say Jesus is just "Ok", but not God. They say Jesus is good, but not the sole way to the Father. They will die in their sin. They will not inherit the kingdom of God. They will not be one with God the Father and the Son. They will not be led by the Holy Spirit. They will not be kept from the evil one. They will die. in. their. sin.

-Believers in Christ should be thankful God has chosen them. We should be committed to following wholeheartedly. We should realize that the Holy Spirit and prayer are essential. We should expect trouble. Jesus had trouble. We'll have trouble. People will tell us we aren't right about Jesus. People will tell us all is "good" in religion. The world is indeed united in religion...it's Godless religion. The Bible tells us about blind and confused sinful men who think they serve God. The Bible tells us about religious men who seek this worlds glory. They will die. in. their. sin.

-Jesus is supreme. He does His Father's will. He leads those who the Father has given Him. He conquers the world through obedience. He sacrifices His own life and brings glory to God. He commands His followers to love one another. He sent the Spirit to help His people. He says if you ask the Father anything in His name, it will be granted. In Jesus's name, God will answer. He is the way, the truth, and something else.

-Jesus came to save His people. Follow Jesus. Call on the name of the Lord and be saved. Pray to God. Open up your mouth or use sign language or think it in your head. It's not hard. Either you accept the gift of eternal life or you reject it. I urge you to accept it. That would be a good decision.

Last edited by Citi; 03-30-2014 at 10:22 AM.

03-30-2014 , 11:40 AM

#105

Husker

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Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 12,878

I've gotta ask as I'm a bit curious about this, but how is it you've come to post all this on 2+2? What was it that brought you here given that you haven't made any posts on the poker forums?

03-30-2014 , 09:50 PM

#106

Citi

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by Husker

I've gotta ask as I'm a bit curious about this, but how is it you've come to post all this on 2+2? What was it that brought you here given that you haven't made any posts on the poker forums?

Hi Husker,

Switch your focus from me to Jesus.

03-31-2014 , 06:01 AM

#107

Husker

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It was a simple, non loaded, question.

Re Jesus. I can't focus on something I don't believe in. That would just be silly

03-31-2014 , 06:39 AM

#108

Super Eddy

newbie

Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by thekid345

You should also note that in Judaism, Jesus is generally referred to as a false Messiah. Based on this, would you consider most Jews to be following a false religion?

Islam and Judaism share many similarities, for example in dietary means, the Kosher/Halal food process is similar in the sense that Jews and Muslims seek to treat the animal with the utmost respect.

As for how Islam views Jesus otherwise known as Isa,

In Islam, Jesus is considered to be a messenger of God. A very important and well respected figure in Islam, Jesus is known as possessing the ability to heal and cure the blind. In Islam, Jesus was born to the virgin Mary, but through the angel Gabriel as opposed to God.

In addition the Quran says that righteous Jews, Christians, Sabians can get into heaven, this is one of many reasons I greatly respect Islam.

Supper Eddy, Citi,

I think its important to notify readers of this thread who may be Jewish/Muslim/Atheist/other that they dont have to convert to Christianity in order to be accepted. I feel that non Christians can be recognized(based on the Bible) as good people so long as they commit good deeds.

To THEKID345,

I have already answered these questions. All you have to do is read my posts. The answers are there. The only one who says that Jesus is not God or the Son of God is Satan. Islam is Satan's religion!

Sincerely,
Super Eddy

03-31-2014 , 12:18 PM

#109

Citi

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Posts: n/a

God: Put to Death

Open your Bibles to John Chapter 19

-Pilate sees no guilt in Jesus. He has tried repeatedly to do so. However, the mob of unbelievers continually cry out, "Crucify Him".

-They crucify the King. After He has been beaten, mocked, etc., they hang Him up along side criminals.

-Jesus dies. Loved ones watch Him die. Soldiers watch Him die. He's dead. God, that became man, is dead. They bury Him. Jesus is dead.

-So, what does this all mean? It means an innocent, perfect life has been sacrificed. That's a good thing. I'm okay with this...no prob at all with me. Thanks Jesus. Nice one.

03-31-2014 , 01:31 PM

#110

thekid345

banned

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 3,616

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Eddy

Super Eddy,

You did answer my question irt to Islam, but you did not answer my specific question irt Judaism, but I guess I will let that one go.

Additionally, Are you Catholic? Pope JPII did say Muslims can get into heaven. Yet here you are claiming Islam is Satans religion, this is confusing to me.

03-31-2014 , 01:45 PM

#111

batair

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Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 16,802

No hes not Catholic.

How do you not know this...

03-31-2014 , 02:28 PM

#112

thekid345

banned

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 3,616

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Eddy

Dear Husker,

Once someone becomes a Christian they are a Christian forever. There is no turning back. It is "Once saved, always saved." It is the same with me. I was raised an atheist, but, when I became a Christian, I could never go back to being an atheist even if I wanted to -- and I tried. Its like cooking a hamburger: once it's cooked it can never be made raw again. We as Christians are "metabolically changed" and we can never go back to being raw or natural.

Much can be said for reading the Word aloud and praying aloud. It is a force or a greater commitment that silent reading and silent prayer doesn't have. All of my prayers are out loud -- They are far more effective than silent prayers. The same is true for "calling on the Lord".

Sincerely,
Super Eddy

Eddy, here you identify yourself as a Christian. Have you ever attended a Church and if so, what type?

In addition you stated

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Eddy

It is possible to be saved as a Jew but you have to obey the Law without fault -- but no one can do that.

Is it possible to be saved if one is non Jewish/non Christian?

Would you consider yourself a supporter of Christian Zionism? In other words Super Eddy, do you believe that the Modern State of Israel(est 1948) along with the eventual conversion of Israeli Jews to Christianity is part of a biblical prophecy?

Last edited by thekid345; 03-31-2014 at 02:36 PM.

04-01-2014 , 03:52 AM

#113

BeaucoupFish

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 4,575

Quote:

Originally Posted by Citi

Hi Husker,

Switch your focus from me to Jesus.

I'm surprised this thread hasn't been locked up already. This is not a forum for preaching, it's for discussion. I don't think posting superficial sermons ending with "What does this all mean? It means Jesus is awesome!" remotely counts. In fact, you seem to be deliberately avoiding responding to questions.

Is there something you want to discuss? How about responding to one of the first questions you were asked ITT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by uke_master

so...do you have any shred of evidence that the major claims of the bible are actually true?

04-01-2014 , 06:34 AM

#114

Husker

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Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 12,878

That is part of the reason I asked my question. Appears to be a new poster who doesn't know the forum rules rather than a gimmick account so I'm curious as to how they find this forum

04-01-2014 , 06:54 AM

#115

dereds

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 16,782

He's been sent / come to evangelize I'm guessing, I don't think it's about knowing the forum rules either it's about caring about the forum rules.

04-01-2014 , 07:09 AM

#116

Super Eddy

newbie

Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by thekid345

Eddy, here you identify yourself as a Christian. Have you ever attended a Church and if so, what type?

In addition you stated

Is it possible to be saved if one is non Jewish/non Christian?

Would you consider yourself a supporter of Christian Zionism? In other words Super Eddy, do you believe that the Modern State of Israel(est 1948) along with the eventual conversion of Israeli Jews to Christianity is part of a biblical prophecy?

Dear Kid345,

I am not a Catholic. I am a generic Christian or a non-denominational Christian. I am not a Christian Zionist.

If someone is not Jewish and not Christian (and have heard the Gospel at least once) they are not saved. Muslims are not saved. Muslims deny that Jesus is God and it is Satan who says that Jesus is less than God. Ergo, Islam is false. Islam is Satan's religion -- contrary to what Pope JPII said.

It is possible to be both Jewish and Christian at the same time -- See the "Jews-for-Jesus" movement for example.

You say that Islam regards Jesus as a prophet and a healer and that Christians are saved under Islam. That is true if those Christians deny that Jesus is God and th Son of God. But if those Christians do say that Jesus is God and the Son of God, then Islam calls them blasphemers and infidels and says they should be put to death!

This actually happens in the Middle East. When a Muslim converts to Christianity and is baptized, they are marked for death by their own family. Very few Christians are able to get out of the Middle East alive. (Islam is Satan's religion!!)

Sincerely,
Super Eddy

04-01-2014 , 09:42 AM

#117

thekid345

banned

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 3,616

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Eddy

Dear Kid345,

I am not a Catholic. I am a generic Christian or a non-denominational Christian. I am not a Christian Zionist.

Super Eddy, Thanks for the response.

In the past, have you attended any type of Church, even if it was only once

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Eddy

If someone is not Jewish and not Christian (and have heard the Gospel at least once) they are not saved. Muslims are not saved. Muslims deny that Jesus is God and it is Satan who says that Jesus is less than God. Ergo, Islam is false. Islam is Satan's religion -- contrary to what Pope JPII said.

I already understand your view on Muslims.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Eddy

It is possible to be both Jewish and Christian at the same time -- See the "Jews-for-Jesus" movement for example.

You support the Jews for Jesus movement? It does have its controversy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_fo..._and_criticism

Super Eddy, is it only possible(in your view) for Jews to be saved if they believe in Jesus Christ, or can Jews get into heaven w/o this view?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Eddy

You say that Islam regards Jesus as a prophet and a healer and that Christians are saved under Islam. That is true if those Christians deny that Jesus is God and th Son of God. But if those Christians do say that Jesus is God and the Son of God, then Islam calls them blasphemers and infidels and says they should be put to death!

My question to you is (based on your beliefs) how can Jews be saved if they view Jesus as a false Messiah, wouldn't Judaism then be a religion of Satan(based on your logic) as they view Jesus as a false Messiah ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Eddy

This actually happens in the Middle East. When a Muslim converts to Christianity and is baptized, they are marked for death by their own family. Very few Christians are able to get out of the Middle East alive. (Islam is Satan's religion!!)

Sincerely,
Super Eddy

There are cases of bad associated with Christians, Jews and Muslims around the world. Your acting very aggressive here, you have (even though you say your a Christian) referred to Islam as "Satans religion" on numerous occasions. Even though the Bible says to "love your neighbor" along with the fact that the Quran says Jews/Christians can get into heaven, And no, the Quran does not say Jews or Christians have to convert to Islam rather the Quran says Jews/Christians can have their rewards with their lords.

04-01-2014 , 11:23 AM

#118

Citi

Guest

Posts: n/a

God: Resurrected

Open your Bibles to John Chapter 20

-Mary and two disciples see that Jesus is no longer in the tomb.

-Jesus appears to them all (Mary and disciples) at later times. They confirm that it is Him.

-Jesus provides the Holy Spirit.

-So, what does this all mean? Jesus is not subject to death. Being one with Jesus, a believer is not subject to death. Jesus delivers on His word.

04-01-2014 , 11:35 AM

#119

Citi

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Posts: n/a

Sinful men continually tried to silence Jesus...in the name of religion using words and phrases from the Bible, in the name of this temporary worlds rules citing it's "authority". No authority on Earth is allowed unless God has given it.

When sinful men finally silenced Jesus for a moment...it brought glory to God, it conquered sin, it conquered the world, it freed people like me and Super Eddy. We will live forever, free of sin and corruption, united with Jesus (God).

04-01-2014 , 11:46 AM

#120

neeeel

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,731

Quote:

Originally Posted by Citi

-Jesus dies. Loved ones watch Him die. Soldiers watch Him die. He's dead. God, that became man, is dead. They bury Him. Jesus is dead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Citi

So, what does this all mean? Jesus is not subject to death. Being one with Jesus, a believer is not subject to death. Jesus delivers on His word.

Kind of negates the first quote, doesnt it? If jesus didnt actually die, and is not subject to death, then it wasnt much of a sacrifice?

04-01-2014 , 11:47 AM

#121

Super Eddy

newbie

Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by thekid345

Super Eddy, Thanks for the response.

In the past, have you attended any type of Church, even if it was only once

I already understand your view on Muslims.

You support the Jews for Jesus movement? It does have its controversy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_fo..._and_criticism

Super Eddy, is it only possible(in your view) for Jews to be saved if they believe in Jesus Christ, or can Jews get into heaven w/o this view?

My question to you is (based on your beliefs) how can Jews be saved if they view Jesus as a false Messiah, wouldn't Judaism then be a religion of Satan(based on your logic) as they view Jesus as a false Messiah ?

There are cases of bad associated with Christians, Jews and Muslims around the world. Your acting very aggressive here, you have (even though you say your a Christian) referred to Islam as "Satans religion" on numerous occasions. Even though the Bible says to "love your neighbor" along with the fact that the Quran says Jews/Christians can get into heaven, And no, the Quran does not say Jews or Christians have to convert to Islam rather the Quran says Jews/Christians can have their rewards with their lords.

Dear Kid345,

I don't know why you have these questions for me when I've already answered many of them. I don't know why you are so quick to defend Islam. It's just junk religion.

Sincerely,
Super Eddy

04-01-2014 , 01:54 PM

#122

thekid345

banned

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 3,616

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Eddy

While you have addressed some of my questions/concerns, you have ignored the glaring issue of which is the fact that most Jews view Jesus as a false Messiah. Yet you wont refer to Judaism as the religion of Satan.

I also would like to get some more information on what Jews need to do in order to be saved(based on your views)? Do they have to accept Jesus as the son of God, is there any other way for Jews to get into heaven w/o accepting Jesus as the son of God.

I am only being fair with you here Eddy as you have stated the followers of Islam(or any Non Jews/Non Christians) cant be accepted as they dont view Jesus as the Son of God. Now thinking about your view of Muslims, how can you turn around and say Jews can be accepted even though most Jews view Jesus as a false Messiah.

IMO the problem with your view Eddy is that you claim (based on your posting) Jews/Christians can be accepted but all non Jews/Christians cant be accepted.

04-01-2014 , 02:00 PM

#123

batair

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Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 16,802

Thats not what he said.

Jews dont get in without following the Law without fail. Which is imposable. So they cant get in without accepting Jesus as God.

Ask him about Catholics....

04-01-2014 , 10:49 PM

#124

BeaucoupFish

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 4,575

Quote:

Originally Posted by Citi

God: Resurrected

Open your Bibles to John Chapter 20

-Mary and two disciples see that Jesus is no longer in the tomb.
...<snip>

Are you sure it was Mary and 2 disciples?
Not Mary and the other Mary? (Matthew)
Not Mary and the other Mary and Salome? (Mark)
Not Mary and the other Mary and an entourage of 'other women'?? (Luke)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Citi

<snip>...
-So, what does this all mean?

Good question. Care to enter into actual discussion, or are you only here to preach, as it would appear?