Basic logic says that:

1) Adam & Eve were created perfect, and perfect beings CANNOT disobey God.
or
2) Adam & Eve were NOT created perfect.

You could make **** up ad hoc to maintain your belief about original sin, but don't claim it's based on either scripture or logic.

I guess the same applies to satan's fall. A perfect being could not make itself imperfect ex nihilo.

Where does it say adam and eve were created perfect?

Que some sort of recycled response about free will

so they werent perfect?

Do you even know what free will is? Your using it to type your ridiculous post.

Please define "perfect"

Adam and Eve were created without original sin... they were tempted by the devil and gave in to pride - they disobeyed God. They weren't glorified or perfect, they had free will and could sin if they chose, but weren't inclined to do so.

Mary was created without original sin - an Angel came and told her she was going to be the Mother of God... pretty scary stuff and hard on her having never been with a man, what would people say, how would she find a husband... But she said yes to God.

Both are without sin, without concupiscence, but when a critical time came they reacted differently. This is why Mary is considered the new Eve, who instead of saying no to God, said yes.

Edit: And yes, the word 'perfect' is only fully realized in God, it depends how you mean it.

this

Perfect: "Good" or "Very Good" from Genesis 1.

Does it say God made Adam and Eve Good or Very Good in Genesis?

Both. It depends on the version.

EDIT: But it doesn't matter, you're just splitting hairs now. The main point is how does someone/something go from Good or Very Good to not-Good or not-Very Good ex nihilo? There's HAS to be an external cause which means "Original Sin" is NOT Adam & Eve's fault!

Splitting hairs...I am actually trying to learn with you.

Can you show me what version says God made them good/very good?

But your right it does not matter. God gave man free will so we weren't robots, and man messed it all up.

I do have questions with regard to the serpent.
How was everything excellent in every way, when there is a talking serpent slithering around trying to tempt Adam and Eve into disobeying God? Can any theists respond to this?

³¹God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

-- Pretty much every version.

sorry op, I can't seem to get what your argument is?

why does it matter that there was an external force that tempted Adam and Eve to sin?

How does something go from good to not-good ex nihilo?

What was stopping Jesus from punching someone in the face?

(free will)

He was "very good."

(but obviously a different kind of "very good" than Adam & Eve were otherwise everything written about morals after Genesis 1:31 wouldn't make much sense if you're applying any consistency)(well, everything written about morals after Genesis 1:31 DOESN'T make much sense if you're applying any consistency, but for the sake of this post I'm pretending to be an ad hoc rationalizing Christian )

All this tells me is man cannot handle freewill without trusting in God and/or learning from our mistakes.

So...Adam and Eve were "very good"
very good doesn't equal perfect, because God is perfect, and humans aren't God.

They were faced with temptation from Satan, the external cause, and made the wrong choice.

So then they were Not very good anymore

still don't really get what either of you are talking about ><

Forget the modifier "very" because it's redundant. You need to look up what the word "Good" means Biblically, and not use your own definition.

Yea i guess it wasn't perfect. It was just very good.

oops, just read genesis 2 again o-oU (NKJ)
it doesn't say Man was created good.

haha, I always hear people say they look up what words mean in the hebrew..
I've NEVER known where they look it up though haha.

This is what I think of the serpent:

The serpent is figurative of Satan (if figurative is the right word)- this could mean Satan didn't really take the form of a snake, but the word snake was used in this sense of deviousness, etc. Or Satan could really have taken the form of a talking snake - it's really not that important of a detail. What is important is that Satan was the one who tempted Eve into disobeying God and falling into the same sin he fell into - pride.

I swear I don't even know why I'm doing this.

well.. it was aid in genesis that "adam and eve were created in our image".

yes, make no mistake about it, in genesis god refers to himself as "our image"... meaning there are other gods.. now just "god".

I doubt you could explain that gunth.. but you are encouraged to try.

I find it funny how god set that whole adam and eve thing up. He put satan in the garden of eden on purpose just to tempt the humans...

the real question we should be asking is why does god allow satan to be in the garden... Hell, why does god allow satan to exist? Is god saying that there mustbe evil in the world so he created satan?>

this wasn't gods only time he did this... Anyone remember the book of.. JOB?