http://www.uiowa.edu/~grpproc/crisp/crisp15_3.pdf

They told individuals in different groups that:

People were much more likely to accept ESP based on it's supposed popularity. And when they were told that science rejects it vs. accepts it, they were more likely to accept ESP when told that science rejects it. So they went against the scientific consensus of ESP.

So I feel that this applies to religion as well, because most of the people on this forum probably think that they and others arrived at their position as a result of rational arguments, when in reality people's beliefs are much more arbitrary. They are largely based on societal and social pressures.

Now, there are many ways in which society and it's conformists pressure people to be religious. To list a few: if you don't believe you roast alive for eternity in hell, if you don't believe you won't get anything for christmas (yes this is used), if you don't believe you can't be a good person, if you don't believe your parents will be disappointed in you, etc. There are many of these.

However, there are virtually no social pressures to become an atheist. Atheism/atheists don't threaten those who are theistic with eternal torture, it doesn't tell you that you are a bad person if you are a theist, it doesn't tell anyone that their parents will be disappointed in them if they grow up to not be atheists. Etc.

The differences in social pressures between theism and atheism are vast, and given the results of this study, could be one of the major reasons that theism is more popular throughout the world. This is also to suggest, that religions with less/absent of social pressures are much, much less likely to survive than religions that apply social pressure.

This is supported by the fact that two religions with the most pressures involved (sociably accepted amounts of pressure to join the religion, threats in holy books if you aren't of the religion, etc.) are Islam and Christianity - the most popular religions in the world.

If the social pressures were subtracted from religion there would not be much left. It's my opinion that the majority of the world could be characterized as non-religious, if this were the case. It seems in general, people are destined from birth to form and conform their beliefs in such a way that getting the least amount of flak is the absolute highest priority...with scientific evidence and rational thought being much less important.

This is very disheartening to me.

When I was young there was plenty of social pressure to denounce religion. If you were religious you were a loser, if you came from a religious family your friends would comfort you for your misfortune. Religious subjects were intensely disliked, and showing an active interest in them would quickly earn you a stamp as an outcast.

There is no belief or lack thereof which can not be subject to social pressure. It's just a matter of where you are.

+1 to TameD's post.

Where I came from, if you were from a religious family and you went to church etc. you were a soft chump who got it in the neck all day at school for believing in bullsh*t and not having the bottle to be naughty like the cool kids. Best case scenario you were some sort of throwback weirdo; if you were very lucky and popular and an alright guy then it was just a light ribbing.

you seem quite fixated on this whole religion lark.

Surely a healthy atheist shouldn't give a f*ck? I never did.

When your ******ed brethren stop threatening and indoctrinating children, trying to change science textbooks, and starting wars and genocides over which imaginary god is better, trust me I will not give a ****

QFMFT


its funny how they fight each other when their "gods" clearly said not to fight one another.

I also find it funny how most atheist are being more "christian/loving/etc" then the god believers... You don't see us starting wars like you guys. I mean, I would have expected the god fearing people to be the last ones starting wars over religion..

oh and...

aliens exist.. thats for sure. I mean we are just a speck compared to the entire universe. surely aliens are out there. they even said mars could have sustained life before its ozone was destroyed.

how old were you when kids made fun of by other kids for believing in god?

In before a theist brings up Pol Pot, Mao, Hitler. Even though Hitler was catholic.

weird. where do you live? i remember in 7th grade when we were supposed to learn about evolution like 2/3s of the class just got up and walked out because it was "against their religion".

wow, i never experienced any of this

lol try living in Kentucky or Ohio.

I dream of a day I can leave this place and not worry about every other person preaching constantly

born and raised in ohio. but im moving to chicago this summer!

w00000000000000t

lolscandinavia

There is religion in my country but like Tame Deuces, the overwhelming view when I was growing up was that it was for superstitious and/or stupid losers. (Or old people who were probably just doing it out of habit). I can't remember how old I was - (maybe 9 or 10?) when I realised that there were functioning members of society who really believed in God. By adulthood, religion was largely a non-issue - it rarely comes up even in pro-anti/abortion discussions or similar.

America has an unusual perspective on religion, imo. I don't think it occupies such a visible position in most western countries.

->

It's been a while since I was a teenager however, it would not surprise me if things have changed.

Where I grew up (Louisiana) it was social suicide to be an open atheist, so much in fact, a common question when meeting someone new was "what church do you go to?"

Just FYI - This was discussed in SMP about a month ago.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/47...e-true-765680/

they are more akin to you than me, my over-zealous friend.

I keep no ******ed brethren.

Do you include your beliefs under the umbrella of "largely based on societal and social pressures" or are you exempt?

If you are exempt, why are you exempt?

If you are not exempt, then is there a reason that anyone should give any more credence to your viewpoint than a religious viewpoint? After all, you are largely the product of societal and social pressures, just like the rest of us.

I'm exempt because science and evidence are at the top of my priority list when forming my beliefs and deciding what I do not believe. I don't give a flying rats ass if I displease you or many people like you by doing so. The rest of the world obviously does.

And you believe that "science and evidence" are not societally driven constructs?

Edit: Alternatively, is your belief in the value of "science and evidence" exempt from being "largely based on societal and social pressures"?

Awwww... poor you. A victim of your own societal and social pressures....

I said that where? The distinction I made in the OP included things like massive social pressures to believe in religion or else you go to hell. There is nothing even remotely approaching that single religious pressure in science. I never said science isn't a social enterprise. A reason it is vastly superior and more objective than religion is is because science doesn't threaten you to believe in it in every avenue it possibly can as religion does. It is warranted with respect, admiration and value based on it's merits and it's ability to make testable predictions about reality. It doesn't get by solely on threatening people like religion. You are so desperate to try to twist everything, it's really sad.

Yes, because it's based on it's ability to make correct predictions about reality over a huge sample size, not on a bunch of empty threats, blowhard.

wtf are you talking about. you are the one of the worst posters on this forum. keep beating your wife, aaron.

It was certainly implied when you were claiming that science was exempt from societal and social pressures.

I thought you were talking about "social" pressures.

I think it would be fair to say that science "threatens" you in the same way religion does. They both claim that certain behaviors have certain consequences.

Yeah you're right, it's much better to be totally indifferent to people abusing and indoctrinating children like a good little christian.

Do you have a point? Seriously, why don't you just come out and say what you want to say. I don't have time to sit here and play word games with you all day, as much as you would like me to

This is a ****ing joke. Give me one "threat" that science makes that is akin to the concept of hell in religion. I look forward to your next post.

You want to claim that people's beliefs are "largely based on societal and social pressures" but you seem to have difficulty accepting that your beliefs are "largely based on societal and social pressures."

Edit: You don't have to respond right away. But of course, if you walk away from the conversation and pretend like it disappears, it wouldn't be intellectually honest.