Fair enough...but it's a little less than a total comprehensive legal system.

It's an example of one (of many) branches of philosophy and methodology that you were claiming earlier did not exist. Lacking awareness of such things does not mean they're non-existent.

If you owned a lot of land in a country, and your country men didn't, then your countrymen decided to divide all the the land in equal lots so that everyone would have a economic base of owning their own farm, according to Numbers 33:54, would you selfishly fight against their cause and God's?

Not if I had enough to sustain my happiness.

Well this essentially is God's plan. I suppose all that's left is for us to do it...

Are you saying no atheists promote love or morality?

If you are, you're putting your foot in your mouth again.

I suppose if it's God's plan then even if we try to foil it, it will still come to pass. If any schmuck with too much money can foil God's plan easily, then we'd have to question his Godliness.

Free-will, or not, we're back to - just do whatever sustains your happiness. If that 'whatever' infringes on other people's happiness you'll be dealt with accordingly, either through your own conscience or the legal system.

Pretty sure an atheist promoted love.

I think atheists can definitely promote love and have, although the first person to have the idea of agape was Jesus

What's the philosophical part?

Without god all is permitted -- With god all is permitted.

Are you honestly saying that the only thing stopping you from molesting a 12 year old girl right now is that you're afraid your god will send you to hell?

lmao!! You'll spare us a history lesson? You NEED a history lesson!

There has never been a less barbaric time to live on this planet than right now! Look up what things were like 200 years ago, 500 years ago. 800 years ago. You've got to be kidding me if you don't think societies and social justice have evolved over this period of time. Read a history book man!

As much as I agree with this, there's also a branch of thought that would digress. Philosophically, without bad guys, we wouldn't know who the good guys are. In the same sense, without injustice, there would be no justice. So injustice and justice will both always be around, in roughly the same degrees, and what you have instead, is the illusion of progress.

I won't go deeper than this...for now.

But we have gotten less religious over time. Weird.

Far, far more people were killed in the last century than in all the previous centuries combined. Well over 100 million.

There is something perverse in doing good solely out of the fear of God's punishment or the anticipation of God's reward. Good atheists do good, not because God might one day reward them or punish them, or because God told them so, but because they find it to be inherently valuable.

Read a history book or twelve. The genocides in the Americas alone by some estimates have killed more than that. Then there were the Mongol conquests which killed between 30-40 million. I could go on.

Now put those casualties in relation to the world population at the time.

I always wish there was some kind of transporter when the rose colored glasses come out for the past.

are you claiming that he invented the concept or the word?

either claim is silly

It will come to pass, but we should question why we've allowed so many frauds to set up shop in our countries for so long.

God's laws balance one's own happiness with societies well being. He's not a naive libertarian.

This is why me and God don't and won't get along.

Wow. I would love to sit down with someone like yourself and discuss how you come to your various conclusions in detail.

"Something had to create the big bang" .. this is a classic example of --"I don't understand something... therefore GOD"

History is full examples of exactly this, many of which we have come to disprove. The cause of the big bang and what was going on before it is probably one of the biggest and toughest questions in science, that quite probably won't ever be answered.

But - not understanding something =/= God exists.

The "logical"arguments for god's existence would be laughed off if they were for anything else. But, fear of death and the promise of an afterlife are probably the strongest 2 motivators known to man. Evidenced by the amazing/horrific things man will do because of them.

There is something incredibly ironic about a discussion on nihilism degrading into unsubstantiated claims that moral foundations without (a specific) religion is impossible.

This is what nihilism is. It is this exact debate. A societal trend where people can't see moral foundations without religion (or similar contemplative foundations) being possible, while at the same time the lack of substance to such beliefs is becoming more and more obvious.

Moronic atheist response? It's been explained to you over and over again that your OP title is demonstrably false. Then you say you're asking "philosophically" not strategically, so I ask for a more clear definition of what you mean. Let me try again...

What are you saying? What are you asking?" What "philosophical" conundrum are you struggling with?

Or was the purpose of your OP just to spout without god all is permitted, because I can't conceive otherwise? Brilliant.

I don't see what is so great about moral certainty in the first place. The Nazis had moral certainty, IsIs has moral certainty. Christians discriminating against gays have moral certainty.

People should be capable of updating their moral code as they proceed through life gaining more experience and wisdom.

There's no point wasting more energy if you can't get it. Take a logic course or an intro to religion course for that matter.