I looked at the linked site last night. You're right it is very interesting. Thanks.

There are lots of resources on the internet, just look up "conditional mortality" or "annihilationism." The most respected evangelical work is by Edward Fudge, called "The Fire that Consumes." It's a great, scholarly book...

http://www.amazon.com/The-Fire-That-.../dp/0595143423

Thanks, I've been looking for something a little more technical than I've been able to find.

Just listened to a Fudge lecture by the same name. He presents some good arguments, I'll be doing some more research to see if it all fits. Compelling at first glance though.

Edit: if anyone cares, here is the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHUPpmbTOV4

It's been a few days, so this is in response to this post.

I don't have too much to say, except that I largely agree with you that cognitive dissonance can work both ways, and that it's probably foolish to make sweeping statements from vague anecdotes about someone's faith. Unfortunately, I don't find that many Christians agree with you, in that specific circumstances and levels of faith are not considered when someone leaves the faith--they're just chalked up as a false convert and it's not discussed again. (Maybe I just didn't hang around liberal enough Christians.)

Minor nit-pick. I think people switching camps should be given some credence--just not very much. But if I woke up tomorrow and found that five million atheists around the world started believing in God--bonus if it's the same God--that would be pretty powerful.

While I agree that a de-convert has to accept the possibility that their conversion was accurate and their deconversion might be the error, I think it's fair to hold revealed religions to a higher standard. They (Christians, at least) claim an omni-max, transcendent being has interfaced directly with your soul. It seems a little too... convenient to say that an ex-believer's interface with God was so weak that they could so easily and so often be swayed by false arguments. It seems downright unbiblical to say that meeting God and entering into a personal relationship with Him is no more compelling than undergoing a psychological phenomenon (and I don't think Free Will comes close to explaining it).

kind of grunching... sorry if this was linked already.

Edward Fudge Lecture:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHUPpmbTOV4

I just started looking into versions hell....I think I am leaning toward annihilation/universalism.

Had forgotten about these posts. I think Christians like every other group will have a certain number of not so conversation-friendly people. I think they see it as a sore subject or something. Three of my close friends are atheists who once proclaimed Christ, but we still get along great. I'm sure there are ignorant atheists as well, maybe even on this forum?

I can concede that. It says something that they denounced Christ, just not with an overwhelming certainty.

Yeah, it's a tough pill to swallow, but cognitive dissonance of this degree is tough to believe either way. If like you said, tomorrow there are millions of born again Christians who denounce Christ and Christianity as a sham, then that would be disconcerting, and would point to something more than the odd person here or there going from born-again devout follower to atheist. Cognitive dissonance is a very disturbing to me, it often keeps me up.

Annihilation doesn't jive with me as much as conditionalism, and I think universalism is incredibly hard to prove biblically.

The thing about annihilation is that it implies the inherent immortality of the soul, where God steps in to actively destroy it, whereas conditionalism does not grant an inherent immortality, so the annihilation process is more of a passive, not granting eternal life process, which results in destruction. They have some good arguments, but it's not at all an open-and-shut case.

I'm still looking in to it myself, put some feelers out to people smarter than myself.

I know the author of this book personally (he is a longtime very committed and knowledgeable about the Bible evangelical Christian) and I think he does a fair job of laying out the biblical and theological cases for three main views of hell (annihilationism, universalism, and eternal torment). Recommended.

"The thing about annihilation is that it implies the inherent immortality of the soul, where God steps in to actively destroy it"

Not true at all, the opposite is true. Every annihilationist position I have ever seen takes the tack that man is inherently mortal, and that the gift of salvation includes the gift of immortality. Annihilationism and conditional mortality go hand in hand.

Thanks, I appreciate that.

Maybe you're right, I'm not fluent in any of this.