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Oldest Draft of King James Bible Discovered Oldest Draft of King James Bible Discovered

11-07-2015 , 03:39 PM
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(4) PhD programs in math still often have a translation requirement, wherein you translate an article from a foreign language. But this does not imply that foreign language skills are essential for a serious study of mathematics.
really?
Oldest Draft of King James Bible Discovered Quote
11-07-2015 , 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by uke_master
really?
Which part? The foreign language part or the "essential" part? I'll assume you mean the foreign language part because I can't imagine you thinking that foreign language is essential for a serious study of math.

I was about to link to my alma mater, but it looks like they changed it since I graduated in 2007. I had to translate some linear algebra text from French into English. It was a couple sections and probably took a total of 3-5 hours, but that was with a dictionary and my background that already included knowing some French. (And I don't remember anything about it.)

Looking around, it's not as common as it seemed like it was when I was looking into graduate schools in 2001-2002. But they're still out there:

https://www.math.cornell.edu/m/Gradu...ge_requirement

http://math.yale.edu/graduate-programs (as part of their Masters level work)

http://www.math.umn.edu/grad/phdprogrequire.shtml

And these came up pretty quickly on an internet search.
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11-07-2015 , 04:16 PM
Huh, must be some American schools doing it. I never saw it in any of the Canadian schools I applied to although maybe I just wasn't paying attention if it wasn't a prerequisite. Although I couldn't tell if the Yale one was actually a foreign language not an English language test and the Cornell one seems to have been phased out.
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11-08-2015 , 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Original Position
I have no idea what you mean here. It has already been explained to you that very few Christians believe that any modern translation of the Bible is inerrant.
Yes, this assertion has been made, but there are two problems with it; firstly that whilst I'll happily agree that not all Christians regard any version of the bible as inerrant, let alone translated version, that no evidence has been offered to show how people are arriving at quantities like 'very few', 'statistically insignificant', 'very very small group'. And second, that it doesn't really matter, because it doesn't make my OP suggestion, that something could be a problem for biblical literalists, wrong.

[QUOTE=Original Position;48589460]As for the accuracy of the standard translations, you have provided zero evidence in this thread that they are inaccurate. Remember, neither I nor most Christians are using inerrancy as our standard of accuracy here.

Well, I have given examples of where English words used in the KJB could differ in meaning from the original texts, or could cause a change of emphasis and so a change in interpretation, but no one is really disagreeing that translations will never be inerrant, so evidence of inaccuracies has not really been required. Are you asking me to provide some?

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Originally Posted by Original Position
About what?
Which modern translation of the bible to use.
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11-08-2015 , 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Mightyboosh
Yes, this assertion has been made, but there are two problems with it; firstly that whilst I'll happily agree that not all Christians regard any version of the bible as inerrant, let alone translated version, that no evidence has been offered to show how people are arriving at quantities like 'very few', 'statistically insignificant', 'very very small group'.
Mostly, it's based on simple reason. What reason would any Christians have to hold that a particular translation is inerrant? The best option you have to see such logic is the KJV-onlyism, but then you would see the intensely low level of logic and reason. From this, it's not hard to realize that most reasonable people wouldn't subscribe to such nonsense.

This is like asking the question of how many Christians believe that dragonflies are actually little dragons because the name contains "dragon" in it. There's no reason to think that they would believe it, but you won't find any surveys out there to support the case because the question is not worth asking since that's not how they view the world.

Besides, evidence has never been effective at convincing you of things. I'm going to point back to pareidolia because it's the most stark example of this. You argued for an extended period of time that this idea meant something that it didn't, and it took you doing some sort of exhaustive search and being unable to find any evidence for it (despite the fact that everyone along the way was telling you that you were wrong) before you assented to your error. You're doing the same thing with inerrancy here. Your concept is wrong in your head, and you are the only one who can get you to see it.

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And second, that it doesn't really matter, because it doesn't make my OP suggestion, that something could be a problem for biblical literalists, wrong.
You have yet to present anything to suggest that there *would* be a problem. Mere possibility isn't doing anything but conceding that you haven't made your point. It could be that Christians believe dragonflies are little dragons. But that suggestion doesn't stand on its own as being meaningful.

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Well, I have given examples of where English words used in the KJB could differ in meaning from the original texts, or could cause a change of emphasis and so a change in interpretation, but no one is really disagreeing that translations will never be inerrant, so evidence of inaccuracies has not really been required. Are you asking me to provide some?
You say this, but then your whole point is structured around the existence of people who thinks that specific translations are inerrant. This type of inconsistency continues to erode your basis for a meaningful discussion.

Last edited by Aaron W.; 11-08-2015 at 01:10 PM.
Oldest Draft of King James Bible Discovered Quote
11-09-2015 , 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Original Position
As for the accuracy of the standard translations, you have provided zero evidence in this thread that they are inaccurate. Remember, neither I nor most Christians are using inerrancy as our standard of accuracy here.
Ignore my last response to this. I want to ask why innerrancy isn't considered innaccuracy?
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11-09-2015 , 12:37 PM
When I was a young man, I decided that my life’s work would be Architecture. When I graduated from High School, I found the University with the best program and enrolled for the next 6 years. During that time, I worked throughout the year so that I would have enough money to make two extended trips to Europe and regular trips to historic properties throughout United States. With any extra time that I had, I would talk to local Architects and visit work sites under construction in order to be better able to understand my craft.

I did all of this for a job. I am not a Christian, but if I were, I would imagine that the time I spent improving my craft would be nothing compared to what a Christian would spend in trying to understand the Scripture that is the basis or their physical and spiritual existence.
Oldest Draft of King James Bible Discovered Quote
11-09-2015 , 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Grima21
When I was a young man, I decided that my life’s work would be Architecture. When I graduated from High School, I found the University with the best program and enrolled for the next 6 years. During that time, I worked throughout the year so that I would have enough money to make two extended trips to Europe and regular trips to historic properties throughout United States. With any extra time that I had, I would talk to local Architects and visit work sites under construction in order to be better able to understand my craft.

I did all of this for a job. I am not a Christian, but if I were, I would imagine that the time I spent improving my craft would be nothing compared to what a Christian would spend in trying to understand the Scripture that is the basis or their physical and spiritual existence.
Can you elaborate on your imagination about the actual benefits you think might be gained?
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11-09-2015 , 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Aaron W.
Can you elaborate on your imagination about the actual benefits you think might be gained?
My comment was just in response to everyone indicating that it would be impractical to learn a language, research biblical scholars, visit Israel, etc.. If the Bible and its teachings were the key to my eternal salvation, I can't imagine why I would not be making that the focus of my existence.
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11-09-2015 , 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Grima21
My comment was just in response to everyone indicating that it would be impractical to learn a language, research biblical scholars, visit Israel, etc.. If the Bible and its teachings were the key to my eternal salvation, I can't imagine why I would not be making that the focus of my existence.
There's that phrase again.

What exactly are you imagining?
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11-09-2015 , 05:14 PM
Many Christians have demonstrated a willingness to make a moderate effort (get baptized, occasionally go to church, say some prayers, make some donations, etc.) to hopefully get some return on investment in a promised afterlife (but only after they have completed the required process of dying and decaying just like all the other animals do), but they are not going to do what Jesus allegedly told them to do (sell all their possessions and give the money to the poor). Learning an ancient language to understand the official "God's Awesome and Official Holy Word" in the language that it was allegedly written in is out of the question. They are looking for an affordable insurance policy.
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11-10-2015 , 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by VP$IP
Many Christians have demonstrated a willingness to make a moderate effort (get baptized, occasionally go to church, say some prayers, make some donations, etc.) to hopefully get some return on investment in a promised afterlife (but only after they have completed the required process of dying and decaying just like all the other animals do), but they are not going to do what Jesus allegedly told them to do (sell all their possessions and give the money to the poor). Learning an ancient language to understand the official "God's Awesome and Official Holy Word" in the language that it was allegedly written in is out of the question. They are looking for an affordable insurance policy.
Pure Gold, should be directly copied into every school book. Can't wait for aaron to make an uneducated comment on that.
Oldest Draft of King James Bible Discovered Quote
11-10-2015 , 05:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VP$IP
Many Christians have demonstrated a willingness to make a moderate effort (get baptized, occasionally go to church, say some prayers, make some donations, etc.) to hopefully get some return on investment in a promised afterlife (but only after they have completed the required process of dying and decaying just like all the other animals do), but they are not going to do what Jesus allegedly told them to do (sell all their possessions and give the money to the poor). Learning an ancient language to understand the official "God's Awesome and Official Holy Word" in the language that it was allegedly written in is out of the question. They are looking for an affordable insurance policy.
Um, please show me where the Bible says that Jesus said that all people
who want to follow him need to sell everything they have and give the
money away.

In actuality, he only said that to one "rich young ruler." The fact is, he
had many friends and followers that were not among the poor, people he
didn't tell to sell their possessions. For example, he stayed at Mary and
Martha's house in Bethany when he was visiting Jerusalem.
Oldest Draft of King James Bible Discovered Quote
11-10-2015 , 05:43 PM
[QUOTE=Mightyboosh;48601107]Yes, this assertion has been made, but there are two problems with it; firstly that whilst I'll happily agree that not all Christians regard any version of the bible as inerrant, let alone translated version, that no evidence has been offered to show how people are arriving at quantities like 'very few', 'statistically insignificant', 'very very small group'. And second, that it doesn't really matter, because it doesn't make my OP suggestion, that something could be a problem for biblical literalists, wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Original Position
As for the accuracy of the standard translations, you have provided zero evidence in this thread that they are inaccurate. Remember, neither I nor most Christians are using inerrancy as our standard of accuracy here.

Well, I have given examples of where English words used in the KJB could differ in meaning from the original texts, or could cause a change of emphasis and so a change in interpretation, but no one is really disagreeing that translations will never be inerrant, so evidence of inaccuracies has not really been required. Are you asking me to provide some?



Which modern translation of the bible to use.
Boosh continues to misuse the term 'Biblical literalist' even though it's been
pointed out by multiple posters, numerous times.
Oldest Draft of King James Bible Discovered Quote
11-10-2015 , 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by iFold2MinRaise
Pure Gold, should be directly copied into every school book. Can't wait for aaron to make an uneducated comment on that.
I'm assuming this is a complete troll post?
Oldest Draft of King James Bible Discovered Quote
11-10-2015 , 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by festeringZit
Boosh continues to misuse the term 'Biblical literalist' even though it's been
pointed out by multiple posters, numerous times.
And you continue to accuse me of this (it's just you really, and maybe aaron but I can't see his posts) even though the term is used variably and I gave you the definition from which I'm working and that my usage of the term is entirely consistent with.

So, unless you have something new to say, or maybe feel like answering some of my questions.....?

How about answering the question I asked OrP. 'Why is innerancy not considered innacuracy?' I thought they were synonymous.
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11-10-2015 , 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by festeringZit
Um, please show me where the Bible says that Jesus said that all people
who want to follow him need to sell everything they have and give the
money away.

In actuality, he only said that to one "rich young ruler." The fact is, he
had many friends and followers that were not among the poor, people he
didn't tell to sell their possessions. For example, he stayed at Mary and
Martha's house in Bethany when he was visiting Jerusalem.
Please show me where he was talking to one "rich young ruler".
Oldest Draft of King James Bible Discovered Quote
11-11-2015 , 01:39 AM
Someone should tell all those monks they dont need to live an ascetic lifestyle.
Oldest Draft of King James Bible Discovered Quote
11-11-2015 , 01:41 AM
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Originally Posted by batair
Someone should tell all those monks they dont need to live an ascetic lifestyle.
I don't think any of them would really be shocked by that revelation.
Oldest Draft of King James Bible Discovered Quote
11-11-2015 , 01:44 AM
Thanks for the info.
Oldest Draft of King James Bible Discovered Quote
11-11-2015 , 02:23 AM
16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”

17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

18 “Which ones?” he inquired.

Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[c] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’[d]”

20 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”




Is the last part just for the one guy too?

And when Jesus says to be perfect. Can all the rich become closer to perfection by giving up thier wealth or is it just a one off?
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11-11-2015 , 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by batair
Is the last part just for the one guy too?
He had already walked away sad, so how could it be for him?

The teaching idea of moving from the specific example to the general principle is a pretty standard thing.

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And when Jesus says to be perfect. Can all the rich become closer to perfection by giving up thier wealth or is it just a one off?
If a rich person lacks the thing that this guy lacked, it's probably a good thing to do. But the question is whether what the hypothetical rich person lacked what this guy lacked, and whether what this guy lacked was specifically "giving away his wealth" or whether there was an secondary outcome of giving away his wealth which was the thing that he lacked.
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11-11-2015 , 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Mightyboosh
And you continue to accuse me of this (it's just you really, and maybe aaron but I can't see his posts) even though the term is used variably and I gave you the definition from which I'm working and that my usage of the term is entirely consistent with.

So, unless you have something new to say, or maybe feel like answering some of my questions.....?

How about answering the question I asked OrP. 'Why is innerancy not considered innacuracy?' I thought they were synonymous.
Three people in this thread have tried to explain to you that your term
'Biblical literalist' is nonsensical. I've spent too many posts trying to
explain to you why, but you stubbornly continue. The term just obfuscates,
and muddles the discussion. I can't figure out if your continued usage is
just one big troll/level. Either way, I'm not going to respond to your
obtuseness, until you make an effort to correct your ignorance.
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11-11-2015 , 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Aaron W.
He had already walked away sad, so how could it be for him?

The teaching idea of moving from the specific example to the general principle is a pretty standard thing.
Right that part was a warning for all wealthy people.

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If a rich person lacks the thing that this guy lacked, it's probably a good thing to do. But the question is whether what the hypothetical rich person lacked what this guy lacked, and whether what this guy lacked was specifically "giving away his wealth" or whether there was an secondary outcome of giving away his wealth which was the thing that he lacked.
Ah so that is just a one off and i can dismiss Jesus words on that part since they could mean anything. Ok.
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11-11-2015 , 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by batair
Right that part was a warning for all wealthy people.



Ah so that is just a one off and i can dismiss Jesus words on that part since they could mean anything. Ok.
Non sequitur.

Do you think when Jesus said that if your right eye causes you to sin, that
you should tear it out and throw it away (Matthew 5), that he literally
was advocating that, or perhaps he was using hyperbole to make a point?
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