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12-19-2014 , 05:32 PM
never stopped the rest of us
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12-19-2014 , 05:34 PM
Heh the man that can maintain a purple worthy signal to noise ratio over 66k posts is truly a rare thing.

Yeah you right.
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12-19-2014 , 05:36 PM
63k of those are in werewolf games, I would wager, and that is 100% noise.
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12-19-2014 , 05:41 PM
I used to be a werewolf but I'm alright nooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
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12-26-2014 , 01:12 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/travel/plane-p...144235462.html

Quote:
A passenger was tossed off a plane at La Guardia Airport on Tuesday after flipping out — because airline workers wished him a merry Christmas.

The man was waiting to board American Airlines Flight 1140 to Dallas when a cheerful gate agent began welcoming everyone with the Yuletide greeting while checking boarding passes.

The grumpy passenger, who appeared to be traveling alone, barked at the woman, “You shouldn’t say that because not everyone celebrates Christmas.”
I will never understand why some people feel that way.
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12-26-2014 , 03:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron W.
https://www.yahoo.com/travel/plane-p...144235462.html



I will never understand why some people feel that way.
I get the sentiment but not the outrage. Something along the lines of merry Christmas and happy holidays is much more inclusive for those who work in customer facing professions.

Quite honestly, Christmas is such a secular holiday now that I know few people who don't celebrate it. All of my atheists friends do and I just had a Jewish friend telling me about the stuff Santa got for his kids yesterday.
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12-26-2014 , 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by master3004
I get the sentiment but not the outrage.
I even get the sentiment. If someone wished me a Happy Hanukkah, I wouldn't be put off by that in the slightest even though I don't celebrate it.

It's one thing if someone is in your face and obnoxious (like a drunk St. Patrick's Day, New Years, or Mardi Gras greeting can sometimes be), but I don't see any reason for just a standard greeting that's no more in-your-face then a regular "Hello" to be something to cause any level of discomfort.
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12-26-2014 , 03:49 PM
Maybe he was raped by a priest or something when he was little and now any insinuation that he might be Christian sets him off. That's a fairly facetious response, but there may be a grain of truth to it. Some people just hate being lumped into any group of people they don't consider themselves part of.
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12-27-2014 , 01:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron W.
https://www.yahoo.com/travel/plane-p...144235462.html



I will never understand why some people feel that way.
I will also never understand why some Christians get riled up over silly things:

http://nypost.com/2014/12/26/astroph...ristmas-tweet/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tweet by Neil deGrasse Tyson
On this day long ago, a child was born who, by age 30, would transform the world. Happy Birthday Isaac Newton b. Dec 25, 1642.
I don't like Tyson that much as either a speaker or as a representative of science, but if you're getting worked up over this type of thing you're getting upset for no reason.
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12-30-2014 , 12:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron W.
I will also never understand why some Christians get riled up over silly things:

http://nypost.com/2014/12/26/astroph...ristmas-tweet/



I don't like Tyson that much as either a speaker or as a representative of science, but if you're getting worked up over this type of thing you're getting upset for no reason.
I don't like Tyson at all, but I thought this was pretty funny. Mainstream christians can be such babies sometimes.
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01-05-2015 , 04:23 PM
The clusterf*** that is the Bible

http://www.newsweek.com/2015/01/02/t...ys-294018.html

Quote:
The Bible is not the book many American fundamentalists and political opportunists think it is, or more precisely, what they want it to be. Their lack of knowledge about the Bible is well established. A Pew Research poll in 2010 found that evangelicals ranked only a smidgen higher than atheists in familiarity with the New Testament and Jesus’s teachings. “Americans revere the Bible—but, by and large, they don’t read it,’’ wrote George Gallup Jr. and Jim Castelli, pollsters and researchers whose work focused on religion in the United States. The Barna Group, a Christian polling firm, found in 2012 that evangelicals accepted the attitudes and beliefs of the Pharisees—religious leaders depicted throughout the New Testament as opposing Christ and his message—more than they accepted the teachings of Jesus.

Newsweek’s exploration here of the Bible’s history and meaning is not intended to advance a particular theology or debate the existence of God. Rather, it is designed to shine a light on a book that has been abused by people who claim to revere it but don’t read it, in the process creating misery for others. When the illiteracy of self-proclaimed Biblical literalists leads parents to banish children from their homes, when it sets neighbor against neighbor, when it engenders hate and condemnation, when it impedes science and undermines intellectual advancement, the topic has become too important for Americans to ignore, whether they are deeply devout or tepidly faithful, believers or atheists.
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01-05-2015 , 06:24 PM
I am generally sympathetic to the main point of the article: American Christians have too shallow of an understanding of the Bible. I have a few objections. Some are nitty, at least one or two are not, I think. First the nits:

1) The textual variation is over-dramatized in the quote from Ehrman. They do then go on to say that the vast majority amount to typos, but still. "No one has ever read the bible" is too strong.

2) The KJV isn't the gold standard of bibles

3) there isn't actually any real issue with translating προσκυνέω, it just requires a footnote.

----

And the not as nitty:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsweek
Which raises a big issue for Christians: the Trinity—the belief that Jesus and God are the same and, with the Holy Spirit, are a single entity—is a fundamental, yet deeply confusing, tenet. So where does the clear declaration of God and Jesus as part of a triumvirate appear in the Greek manuscripts?
First, there's an interesting presupposition here, which is that Christianity is fundamentally a religion of the book, and that what's not in the book doesn't count. But that is also "not in the Bible", so to speak. It's also conditioned by later tradition, namely the sola scriptura of protestantism.

They call that a deception, but there is no deception, even if there is misunderstanding on the part of modern Christians. The Church at the time of councils did not hold that the biblical texts were the only authority on Christology, but that the Church, hearing the spirit of God (however understood) was. There's certainly plenty of political machinations to criticize in Christendom both then and now, and just as they say the Bible is a human book and its flaws should be understood in that light, so too church history, I would say.

Beyond that, the author seems to implicitly side with the Arians, and suggests that the Biblical tradition is firmly against trinitarianism, but the actual Christology of the New Testament is pretty ambiguous, imo.

So for example they write:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsweek
In other words, with a little translational trickery, a fundamental tenet of Christianity—that Jesus is God—was reinforced in the Bible, even in places where it directly contradicts the rest of the verse.

That kind of manipulation occurs many times. In Philippians, the King James Version translates some words to designate Jesus as “being in the form of God.” The Greek word for form could simply mean Jesus was in the image of God.
That is untrue. The greek μορφη in Phillipians 2 means shape or form, and can't be translated image. I think they are confusing it with Colossians 1:15, which sounds similar, but calls Christ the εικον (icon, image) of God. See Philippians 2 and Colossians 1.

Beyond that, the implication that somehow the Colossians wording would change the theological implications of Philippians is stretched. Even as "image", the hymn of Colossians 1 certainly renders Christ divine in some way:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colossians 1:15-20
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
They also mention 1 Corinthians 8. From the article

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsweek
In Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians, he wrote that “there is but one God, the Father…and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ.”
which is implying that the passage is non-trinitarian. But N.T. Wright, a very notable modern scholar of Paul's work, considers that passage to reflect a very high Christology. I can't do justice to his argument here, but in short:

a) In the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the O.T. which Paul would have used, κυριος (Lord) is used to replace the Hebrew YHWH. That tradition is where we get English translations of the O.T. which also render as "The LORD sayeth..." and so on. Paul's use of the title Kyrios for Jesus is already allusive

b) In context, Paul seems to be citing some older formulation, like a prayer, and he is citing it in support of the conclusion that there is only one "God", and his formulation also attributes to Christ the same sort of heavenly power:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1 Corinthians 8:4-6
Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that "an idol has no real existence," and that "there is no God but one." For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"— yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
c) Wright argues that the Greek of this passage echoes the style of the Greek formulation of the Shema in the Septuagint, the central monotheistic prayer of Judaism: "Hear O Israel, the Lord Our God, the Lord is One". That is a matter of the specific syntax, but he reads it as a Christian re-imagining of that prayer.

There are other arguments about how Paul's view of Jesus makes him Divine in a way that wouldn't make sense in a strictly Judaistic monotheism, but leaving those aside, John's gospel also clearly has a very high Christology, and although it is later than the other gospels and Paul, it's well prior to Nicea. The point that there was not universal consensus among Christians even many centuries after Jesus is well taken, but the orthodox view isn't simply a matter of Constantine destroying opposing views over the objections of the actual text. The inclusion of Christ and the Spirit in the identity of God (leaving aside the philosophical formulation of this at Constantinople) is something that can be found in the text, if not in a very developed and systematic way.
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01-05-2015 , 07:01 PM
yeah what WN said.
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01-05-2015 , 07:05 PM
It turns out I'm wrong. Slightly. Morphe and eikon are used somewhat synonymously in the Septuagint, so there is an argument that the "form" of Philippians could have been translated "image", although I think form is the correct (more literal) translation. Since I argued that I don't think "image" changes much anyway, I guess I don't think it matters, but it matters as far as them not saying something plainly wrong.
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01-08-2015 , 08:41 AM
submitted my first paper in 20 years, 5 hours before the deadline as well which is some kind of record but still slightly later than intended
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01-08-2015 , 11:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dereds
submitted my first paper in 20 years, 5 hours before the deadline as well which is some kind of record but still slightly later than intended
What was the thesis?
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01-08-2015 , 11:57 AM
it was an essay on the problems philosophers have faced in putting together a definition of knowledge, I don't know if it's any good so am looking forward, with a little trepidation, to getting it marked
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01-08-2015 , 12:01 PM
Interesting. If you're feeling brave you should post it here, you're sure to get honest feedback.
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01-08-2015 , 12:23 PM
I wanted to start writing slightly longer ideas on religious stuff occasionally so I started a blog. Actually my first post was just a repackaged #2612. But the nice part about a blog is there is no trepidation about anyone actually reading it :P
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01-08-2015 , 02:28 PM
heh it's submitted NR I'll get the feedback in due course, in fairness it's 5k words kinda technical in places and not of great interest. I may post a general epistemology intro or something in course.

I started a blog when I started the course wn, the beauty being you can practice writing in public and private simultaneously. I found it harder than I thought before folding it, it may be back in course
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01-08-2015 , 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by well named
I wanted to start writing slightly longer ideas on religious stuff occasionally so I started a blog. Actually my first post was just a repackaged #2612. But the nice part about a blog is there is no trepidation about anyone actually reading it :P
link please.

I also want to start a religious blog.
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01-08-2015 , 07:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dereds
I may post a general epistemology intro or something in course.
Even as just a layperson, I'd be interested.
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01-09-2015 , 07:32 AM
Good because it'll be getting written by a lay person. I'll clear with OrP it's okay here rather than SMP and get something up shortly.
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01-09-2015 , 01:43 PM
Of course it is okay.
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01-16-2015 , 05:13 PM
Supreme Court has announced it is taking up the bundle of gay marriage cases this term. The previous non answer from them (based on the idea that there was no conflict in lower courts) no longer applies to the circuit conflict and so we should get a definitive ruling. At this point, the woret case scenario is "its up to the states", but the most probable result is constitutionally protected marriage equality across the country by the end of summer.

Part of me always liked the ballot/legislative approaches. It gave is the opportunity as a society to come together, to change our views, to do the right thing and endorse equality ourselves. With those changed minds, all the other soft discrimination against lgbt that occurs would hopefully decline as well. But the phenomenal speed of the courts - up to 36 states already - is amazing that we can end the discriminatiom now.
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