Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > Other Topics > Religion, God, and Theology

Notices

Religion, God, and Theology Discussion of God, religion, faith, theology, and spirituality.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-06-2010, 06:13 AM   #1
banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Don't forget. You are loved by God.
Posts: 18,896
Neurotheology: The Brain and Religion

An interesting article going over many aspects of the brain and religion: right temporal lobe reactions and religion, the mind during prayer and meditation versus a tongues experience, the God helmet and Dawkins experience of it, and some anthropological advantages for having religious experiences.

The article is about 3 pages long:

Is the Brain Hardwired for Religion:
http://health.howstuffworks.com/ment...n-religion.htm

Last edited by Splendour; 09-06-2010 at 06:18 AM. Reason: changed link to start on page 1 of article.
Splendour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 06:17 AM   #2
banned
 
rizeagainst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: what century is this?
Posts: 8,393
Re: Neurotheology: The Brain and Religion

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/20...74106.abstract

Believers' estimates of God's beliefs are more egocentric than estimates of other people's beliefs

Abstract
People often reason egocentrically about others' beliefs, using their own beliefs as an inductive guide. Correlational, experimental, and neuroimaging evidence suggests that people may be even more egocentric when reasoning about a religious agent's beliefs (e.g., God). In both nationally representative and more local samples, people's own beliefs on important social and ethical issues were consistently correlated more strongly with estimates of God's beliefs than with estimates of other people's beliefs (Studies 1–4). Manipulating people's beliefs similarly influenced estimates of God's beliefs but did not as consistently influence estimates of other people's beliefs (Studies 5 and 6). A final neuroimaging study demonstrated a clear convergence in neural activity when reasoning about one's own beliefs and God's beliefs, but clear divergences when reasoning about another person's beliefs (Study 7). In particular, reasoning about God's beliefs activated areas associated with self-referential thinkingmore so than did reasoning about another person's beliefs. Believers commonly use inferences about God's beliefs as a moral compass, but that compass appears especially dependent on one's own existing beliefs.
"No man ever believes that the Bible means what it says: He is always convinced that it says what he means."
rizeagainst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 06:21 AM   #3
banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Don't forget. You are loved by God.
Posts: 18,896
Re: Neurotheology: The Brain and Religion

I can see by the speed of your post you didn't read the OP article.
Splendour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 01:09 PM   #4
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
batair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: magic swirlin ship
Posts: 10,462
Re: Neurotheology: The Brain and Religion

That never stopped you....


Im sorry but it was there.
batair is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 01:17 PM   #5
banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Don't forget. You are loved by God.
Posts: 18,896
Re: Neurotheology: The Brain and Religion

Lol...interesting how everybody wants to claim evolution is compelling but nobody wants to look at the brain...

The brain is fascinating. I started out with this article "Do men and women have different brains?": http://health.howstuffworks.com/huma...ent-brains.htm

and came across the religion one. The brain helmet is a hoot.
Splendour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 01:23 PM   #6
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
batair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: magic swirlin ship
Posts: 10,462
Re: Neurotheology: The Brain and Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Splendour View Post
Lol...interesting how everybody wants to claim evolution is compelling but nobody wants to look at the brain...

The brain is fascinating. I started out with this article "Do men and women have different brains?": http://health.howstuffworks.com/huma...ent-brains.htm

and came across the religion one. The brain helmet is a hoot.
Im more interested in this question when it comes to judgment and salvation.

If the brains of believers have the ability to believe and the brains of non believers are impaired. It basically means Gods punishing the mentally handicap who have no control over there brains chemistry. That is if he doesn't factor that in and your in the must believe camp.
batair is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 01:24 PM   #7
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ganstaman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: central nj
Posts: 7,647
Re: Neurotheology: The Brain and Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Splendour View Post
Lol...interesting how everybody wants to claim evolution is compelling but nobody wants to look at the brain...
Did you get that from the article? If so, it must be a bad article. Many are looking at the brain, and in fact we trace the development of various parts of the brain through evolutionary history. So what are you talking about?
ganstaman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 01:28 PM   #8
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
[Phill]'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 40,076
Re: Neurotheology: The Brain and Religion

Do you think the brain being hardwired for religious belief increases or decreases the likelyhood of god being real?

Bonus points if you dont ignore "god wants us to have free will" argument and the way that evolution would make the genes of believers more likely to be passed down the generations than the genes of none believers, who were stoned to death or burned on a stake etc.
[Phill] is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 01:30 PM   #9
banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Don't forget. You are loved by God.
Posts: 18,896
Re: Neurotheology: The Brain and Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by batair View Post
Im more interested in this question when it comes to judgment and salvation.

If the brains of believers have the ability to believe and the brains of non believers are impaired. It basically means Gods punishing the mentally handicap who have no control over there brains chemistry. That is if he doesn't factor that in and your in the must believe camp.
Only if you think there's an eternal hell.

God could be allowing us the experience of this world so we never want to experience it again.

Sort of like touching a hot stove once makes you respect a stove and hot things the rest of your life.

Besides he told us to go out and tell people. I always had the ability to spot people that were better than me and learn from them so why can't other non-believers do the same: fake it until understanding is achieved and it becomes second nature.

At the same time God needs to keep quality control down here. Just bad enough so we learn not to want to touch the hot stove any more yet not so bad we nuke each other into non-existence. Unlike this world's experience of the ends, God's ends are so out of proportion to the means that his means could be justified.
Splendour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 01:33 PM   #10
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
[Phill]'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 40,076
Re: Neurotheology: The Brain and Religion

Can you expand more on what you mean by this:

Quote:
Besides he told us to go out and tell people. I always had the ability to spot people that were better than me and learn from them so why can't other non-believers do the same: fake it until understanding is achieved and it becomes second nature.
I dont want to jump to conclusions.
[Phill] is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 01:44 PM   #11
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
batair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: magic swirlin ship
Posts: 10,462
Re: Neurotheology: The Brain and Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Splendour View Post
Only if you think there's an eternal hell.
It doesn't just go for hell it goes for any non acceptance.
Quote:
God could be allowing us the experience of this world so we never want to experience it again.

Sort of like touching a hot stove once makes you respect a stove and hot things the rest of your life.
But my brain is defective, i cant tell if its hot.
Quote:
Besides he told us to go out and tell people. I always had the ability to spot people that were better than me and learn from them so why can't other non-believers do the same: fake it until understanding is achieved and it becomes second nature.
Because we are going under the assumption non believers brain are defective so it would not be possible.
Quote:
At the same time God needs to keep quality control down here. Just bad enough so we learn not to want to touch the hot stove any more yet not so bad we nuke each other into non-existence. Unlike this world's experience of the ends, God's ends are so out of proportion to the means that his means could be justified.
Hey if its a testing ground and non believers brains fail, ok. But believes should have sympathy for humans who have bad brains that instead of judgment. You think God would too but...
batair is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 02:14 PM   #12
banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Don't forget. You are loved by God.
Posts: 18,896
Re: Neurotheology: The Brain and Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by [Phill] View Post
Do you think the brain being hardwired for religious belief increases or decreases the likelyhood of god being real?

Bonus points if you dont ignore "god wants us to have free will" argument and the way that evolution would make the genes of believers more likely to be passed down the generations than the genes of none believers, who were stoned to death or burned on a stake etc.
I think it increases it. We also have a VMAT-2 gene. Genes aren't all controlling though.

I'm not going to argue anything on free will because for the longest time I couldn't make up my mind between Arminianism and Reformed views and I think its really a combination of both just like compatibilism is a combination of both divine providence and human will. Most likely its because it's a mixture of both that humans can't theologize with 100 percent accuracy. That makes the scriptural approach the best one but somehow that approach isn't fashionable today.
Splendour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 03:49 PM   #13
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Arouet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,433
Re: Neurotheology: The Brain and Religion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFJPtVRlI64

Split brain with one half atheist, one half theist.
Arouet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 04:33 PM   #14
old hand
 
skalf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,343
Re: Neurotheology: The Brain and Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arouet View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFJPtVRlI64

Split brain with one half atheist, one half theist.
I love that one; I wish some Christian on this board would answer it seriously some day.
Things like this never seem to spark the reflection they logically should.
skalf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2010, 01:33 AM   #15
banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Don't forget. You are loved by God.
Posts: 18,896
Re: Neurotheology: The Brain and Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arouet View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFJPtVRlI64

Split brain with one half atheist, one half theist.
I watched the video but it didn't make sense to me really.

People do have prefrontal cortex integration problems at least that's what I've learned by reading the neuropsychiatrist Curt Thompson, M.D.

But I'm not an expert on the topic so I can only recommend reading his book for more details as I suspect it has some relation to the points being made in the video you posted.
Splendour is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive