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Old 06-19-2012, 08:29 AM   #16
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Re: The Lost Tribes

I'm on God's business who's will do you think I'm under?
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Old 06-19-2012, 06:23 PM   #17
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Re: The Lost Tribes

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I'm on God's business who's will do you think I'm under?
clearly one that's not remotely close to omniscient
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Old 06-20-2012, 06:58 AM   #18
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Re: The Lost Tribes

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clearly one that's not remotely close to omniscient
Oh, the old atheist problem, huh?

Confusing God with men?

Men are fallible (fallen).

I don't reflect God as much as you think I should (which is a true conclusion) and you don't either or you would have reflected more before making that statement.
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Old 06-20-2012, 04:40 PM   #19
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Re: The Lost Tribes

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These "messianic jews" are believed to be jews who had converted to christianity or jews who took on many christian rituals (which later became beliefs) due to persecution or compulsion.

Generally, Judaism considers someone born jewish to always be jewish - some strains of judaism believe that anyone taking on another religion is no longer jewish, however this is a minority position.

Whatever the history, belief in Jesus as the messiah is not compatible with Judaism and so these people should not be described (in terms of what religious, rather than ethnic group they belong to) as Jews.

Edit: there are many groups of traditional jews that do believe in a messiah - just not jesus - and are more accurately described as "messianic jews". The hassidim are a good example.
correct. Judaism and Christianity do not mix. That is very clear to anyone who knows anything about Judaism.
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Old 06-20-2012, 05:24 PM   #20
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Re: The Lost Tribes

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Confusing God with men?
That's you that is.

Blaming a load of man-made drivel on god.
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Old 06-20-2012, 10:58 PM   #21
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Re: The Lost Tribes

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correct. Judaism and Christianity do not mix. That is very clear to anyone who knows anything about Judaism.
I believe many of the Messianic Jews would disagree.

Wiki quotes:

"Messianic Judaism is a syncretic religious movement that arose in the 1960s and 70s. It blends evangelical Christian theology with elements of religious Jewish practice and terminology."

"Some adherents of Messianic Judaism are ethnically Jewish, and many of them argue that the movement is a sect of Judaism. Jewish organizations, and the Supreme Court of Israel (regarding the Law of Return), have rejected this claim, and instead consider Messianic Judaism to be a form of Christianity. From 2003 to 2007, the movement grew from 150 Messianic houses of worship in the United States to as many as 438, with over 100 in Israel and more worldwide; congregations are often affiliated with larger Messianic organizations or alliances. In 2008, the movement was reported to have between 6,000 and 15,000 members in Israel and 250,000 in the United States."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Judaism
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Old 06-23-2012, 01:31 PM   #22
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Re: The Lost Tribes

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Old 06-23-2012, 02:14 PM   #23
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Re: The Lost Tribes

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Old 06-23-2012, 02:25 PM   #24
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Re: The Lost Tribes

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I've never heard this claim before. I mean about the two witnesses. I've heard about Manasseh as the U.S. and Ephraim as the company of nations, British Commonwealth.

Where did you hear about this?

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Old 06-23-2012, 02:37 PM   #25
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Re: The Lost Tribes

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I've never heard this claim before.
"Seek, knock, ask"

Well the royalty isn't going to shout it in the streets. Under God's laws they couldn't have acquired all their wealth.

Deut. 17:14-17

14“When you enter the land which the LORD your God gives you, and you possess it and live in it, and you say, ‘I will set a king over me like all the nations who are around me,’ 15you shall surely set a king over you whom the LORD your God chooses, one from among your countrymen you shall set as king over yourselves; you may not put a foreigner over yourselves who is not your countryman. 16“Moreover, he shall not multiply horses for himself, nor shall he cause the people to return to Egypt to multiply horses, since the LORD has said to you, ‘You shall never again return that way.’ 17“He shall not multiply wives for himself, or else his heart will turn away; nor shall he greatly increase silver and gold for himself. (note the pyramid on dollar bill)

Under God's laws, they would be just like normal people, with their normal plot of land. (Num 33:54)

So there is a conspiracy. (Jer 11:9)
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Old 06-23-2012, 02:51 PM   #26
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Re: The Lost Tribes

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"Seek, knock, ask"

Well the royalty isn't going to shout it in the streets. Under God's laws they couldn't have acquired all their wealth.

Deut. 17:14-17

14“When you enter the land which the LORD your God gives you, and you possess it and live in it, and you say, ‘I will set a king over me like all the nations who are around me,’ 15you shall surely set a king over you whom the LORD your God chooses, one from among your countrymen you shall set as king over yourselves; you may not put a foreigner over yourselves who is not your countryman. 16“Moreover, he shall not multiply horses for himself, nor shall he cause the people to return to Egypt to multiply horses, since the LORD has said to you, ‘You shall never again return that way.’ 17“He shall not multiply wives for himself, or else his heart will turn away; nor shall he greatly increase silver and gold for himself. (note the pyramid on dollar bill)

Under God's laws, they would be just like normal people, with their normal plot of land. (Num 33:54)

So there is a conspiracy. (Jer 11:9)
That's a lot to think about. I wouldn't totally discount that they are the witnesses because the U.K. and the U.S. have sent out more people to witness about the Gospel than probably any nations on Earth.

The conspiracy I'm not so sure about. Are you sure it isn't one in ancient times that the bible is referring to?

In the OT passages there is a place in it where the OT kings almost lost the book of the Law which was egregious since they were required by God to observe it.

Of course, you still have to do a lot more scriptural comparisons before accepting that interpretation of prophecy. I couldn't really say I agree or disagree with you at this point in time.
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Old 06-23-2012, 02:59 PM   #27
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Re: The Lost Tribes

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The conspiracy I'm not so sure about. Are you sure it isn't one in ancient times that the bible is referring to?
Perhaps, but obviously it still goes on. I mean, you don't hear anyone on the BBC saying it's time to return to God's laws.

I was kind of surprised the Queen recently used the term "Jubilee", as that would seem too close for comfort. As it's obviously a term in THE LAW. But rightly so, I guess they just think everyone isn't too bright?
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Old 06-23-2012, 03:08 PM   #28
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Re: The Lost Tribes

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Perhaps, but obviously it still goes on. I mean, you don't hear anyone on the BBC saying it's time to return to God's laws.

I was kind of surprised the Queen recently used the term "Jubilee", as that would seem too close for comfort. As it's obviously a term in THE LAW. But rightly so, I guess they just think everyone isn't too bright?
I think all people are under a disadvantage to some degree in keeping God's laws if only because of the passage of time. We don't have a lot of the same customs as the ancient Jews. We don't have their diet for one thing.

And also the NT makes the impossibility of keeping the law very clear. Also the bible says if we break one law then we're guilty of breaking all the laws. That's why we need grace.

I think the best explanation of grace and the law and comparison of Paul in Galations with James in the Book of James that I've read on the subject is by Dr. Stephen E. Jones. He shows how grace and the law have complementary aspects that people because they have moved away from Hebraic interpretations don't really understand that well today.
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Old 06-23-2012, 06:26 PM   #29
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Re: The Lost Tribes

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And also the NT makes the impossibility of keeping the law very clear. Also the bible says if we break one law then we're guilty of breaking all the laws. That's why we need grace.
I don't think it's impossible. I mean, yea if you tried starting tomorrow onward and succeeded, you would still have your sin from yesterday, so in that sense impossible. And really, the only way you can do that is the same way Jesus and all the other bad asses did; 40 day fast.

"Be perfect as your father in heaven is perfect." - Jesus

Romans 7:16-25 16But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 18For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
21I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? 25Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

So, like Paul in Damascus and Arabia, you're going to have to do some fasting.
Then you can be like Paul and say "its not I who lives, but the christ who lives in me.

Like Israel had to go 40 years in wilderness, you're going to have to go 40 days ...in the wilderness.

As far as salvation goes, Rev. 14:3 15:3 5:9 state that the only people who are making it out of here are the ones who learn to sing the song of Moses and the song of the lamb; the new song.

God doesn't care about chants, and that's why you see all the diffucult sayings like "small is the gate and narrow is the way; few are those who find it."

God says over and over, His law is forever. "It's too hard" isn't going to cut it.

Grace is like; get out of the way (your body) because there's something sleeping inside of you. Not a chant.
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Old 06-23-2012, 08:12 PM   #30
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Re: The Lost Tribes

tthis seems like a really nice pleasant therasd.
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