Very interesting post OP!

I myself is a christian poker player, ive played poker seriously for half a year and im making around $1200 a month.
Ive told my friends about this and theyre cool with it but i recently told both my parents about it and they took it harsh.
My mother was really angry on me and told my stuff like "when u grow older u will understand that its a sin" and "its a devil's game" absurd stuff that really tilted me. I have many times before tried to explained to them that the game is NOT all about luck and its NOT gambling etc but they still think its only gambling in the game and pretty much nothing else.

Anyway if we reach out to people to understand the fact that its a very complex SPORT and NOT gambling. Then people, especially christians will be more open minded about the game.

As u have already said there is stuff that sucks that comes with poker. If u go to a casino there is hundreds of things that connects to gambling, not to talk about drugs and hookers. but if u can control yourself and be discipline these stuff are harmless.

Oh and OP clearly states that he is not here to argue about his beliefs but u guys go crazy anyway? I mean cmon give it a break.

My opinion is that no he does not.

I`m actually a math / science guy. It would take a really long time to sum up all of my experiences, so I`ll just simplify and say that:

1. I see God's design in so many aspects of creation. To me the odds that gases could explode and create all this, are much higher then the odds that God exists.

2. Let's say for arguments sake I am wrong. The amazing ways I have seen lives changed again and again, make this worth it even if that was the case. That being said, I have a large enough sample size in my life to feel confident in my beliefs.

This is one reason why I feel this is important, and why I think this could benefit even non Christians in the poker community.


I`m sorry to hear about your struggles with your parents. I think all Christians need to pray about their involvement in poker, just like they should their involvement in drinking or 100s of other things. If you have a peace about it that its not becoming more important then God, then stick to your guns.

I would also suggest trying to take the gentlest approach with your parents. Don't try to argue them into agreeing, Love them through it and be patient. I`ve heard stories before of parents who have started out against poker and over time their hearts and minds have changed.

Shooting you a pm here in a bit...

Do you copy/paste this into every thread started by a Christian? Because this one obviously has zero to do with theological debate and your post is ridiculous.

Would you mind sharing the most compelling example of a one outer in your life that you think is most convincing?

Does it trouble you that there are billions, born into poverty, suffering, desease, accident, war, and the like, that do NOT hit the proverbial one outers?

Lol relax. The OP has no obligation to answer, and surely a rather innocent one sentence question is not going to hurt anybody.

Op said: Christians love to take these gray areas and pass their own convictions or opinions off on others both Christians and Non Christians alike. It`s one of the most damaging things about Christianity today. Is it a sin to go to a bar? A bar is just a building that serves alcohol. Some people can walk in and out of a bar no problem and have no issues. Others would not be able to control themselves and would end up drunk and passed out. If one person decides to never go to bars to stay out of trouble, that is fine, if another decides he can go in no problem thats fine. If one tries to force their rules on the other, thats where the problems begin.-end quote


The gray areas are frequently exactly where the weaknesses of the flesh manifest themselves to men's detriment.

Quote about the idea of degeneration:

In the 1850s French doctor Bénédict Morel argued more vigorously that certain groups of people were degenerating, going backwards in terms of evolution so each generation became weaker and weaker. This was based on pre-Darwinian ideas of evolution, especially those of Jean-Baptiste Lamarck, who argued that acquired characteristics like drug abuse and sexual perversions, could be inherited. Genetic predispositions have been observed for alcoholism and criminality. -end quote

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degeneration

Maybe Christians like to pass their own convictions because they know sinfulness runs more than skin deep.

What's one man's soup is another man's poison.

God knew that genetic predispositions were lurking like curses in the human system a lot earlier than modern science did.

We've got people today that aren't aware they can have genetic predispositions to compulsive gambling that go on to hurt themselves.

Where the bible is silent it's sometimes prudent to fall silent and let God call to the individual and let people seek Him on their own because sometimes the way we read the bible does or doesn't apply to the individual in a given situation.

Note: Lamarck was right on the drug abuse and sexual perversion as being in part inheritable. At least he was on the right track. Addictions run in families and there's a link between pedophiles and in utero hormones. See the causes and biological associations on pedophiles here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

I think your misunderstanding me. I`ve had 3 failed businesses, lost my first wife to one of my employees, have worked 100-120 hour work weeks for the last 7 years, have had my power, phone, internet turned off more times then i can count. My life has been far from perfect and I`ve had many difficult situations(I`m not comparing my life to the many others in 3rd world countries and abroad who have had far worse lifes).

I`m not saying, hey my life has been great so God is real. I`m saying I have gotten through some major major jams, and seen many people's lives radically changed, can I put a quantitative value of the odds of any of those things happening and run mathematical equations to see exactly what the odds of all of them happening are and run variance calculations to see if it is possible? Of course not.

People struggle with understanding how one can be certain of their faith when faith is defined by belief with uncertainty. The funny thing is people put faith in all kinds of things, you get up in the morning and assume your car is goign to work, you go to work and assume your boss is going to act a certain way. Everything in the future has uncertainty but we all have people, places and things that we feel are constants and we count on to respond in that way.

There really is nothing that could be said in this thread or in real life that would make me doubt anything. Do I have all the answers? absolutely not! Are there things in life that are difficult to understand in relation to God, absolutely! But give me credit that I have at least taken the time to read the bible and then apply it to my life to see how well it works rather than simply make a snap decision on it's validity....

This is an example of why I firmly believe that each Christian has a responsibility to seek God on such things and allow the Holy Spirit to show what areas a particular individual should steer clear from. I have no problem with a Christian who feels poker is wrong for them and does not want to participate. I have a HUGE problem with a christian who says poker is wrong for everyone...

I have a huge problem with people saying anything where God falls silent. Why can't the people take it to God, pray on it and study the bible for themselves?

Don't they know themselves better than anybody else?

They might find God's will for their lives if they did that. Who better to ask than God about what His will is for you?

People get lost all the time in this world when they consult everybody but God because people are fallible, their experience and abilities aren't your experience and abilities and their drives and motives and psychological makeup aren't your drives, motives and psychological makeup. Take all your questions to your Maker. He knows you better than anybody....including yourself.

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Me either, but it may seem that way because of multiquote set up i got goin here. Also typing and tact are effort i don't waste on twoplustwo

This is true. You may find the support you need through someone here.

This statement is true, but the concept is in your head. Why? There are other christians playing poker who are not even considering the argument. The fact that you are may be evidence that you have a problem with it. Get a job?

WHY DOES THE WORLD NEED TO KNOW THAT!! So what! It's useless garbage.

You don't need to organize a group to do this.?. Go do it, if you feel led.

Image of the poker community. WHAT? Image of the poker community. WHAT!! You're not on planet earth to promote the poker community! So what if xx.xxxxx% of the world thinks you're scum. You are! I am too! Filthly, pathetic, dirty, broken, dying dust! Who isn't!


I support this statement.

Nobody will be hurt, but the thread will be derailed pretty severely.

Good luck OP

I would say there isnt much hyperbole in my statement at all. That exact behavior I'm describing can be seen all over these boards from many militant/confrontational Aheists. I should have clarified that I meant on the forum as a whole instead of just this one particular thread.