That's true but I thought the test was non-delusional ways of being fulfilled, as against being fulfilled by believing in God or unicorns? As I say I'm not claiming they're equivalent delusions, but I think it's a question of degree rather than kind.

If your definition of delusion is contingent on not having free will, then I guess I'd agree, however this definition makes the word 'delusion' almost useless.

I said my usage for delusion is roughly - very inaccurate beliefs about things, whether real or imagined. We do have reasonably accurate beliefs about a lot of things, so why is my usage useless?

Because if this delusion is predicated on a lack of free will, then every entity in the entirety of the universe is deluded. The word delusion would no longer provide a useful indicator of what it defines.

Free will may be an example of a delusion or a root cause of a few delusions, but it's not what all other delusions are predicated on.

I was going by your pride example only. If you have others, feel free.

Getting back to the OP

McFold this is certainly one of the greatest questions for humanity. It delves far beyond the intellectual into heart of existentialism (where I believe the heart & mind unify).

Your post certainly resonates with me and drives me past mere argumentation and I feel genuine concern for you!!!...as well as many others here. (To be honest I skipped many pages of this thread).

Nevertheless, to be to the point I don't think there is any meaning to life in the absolute sense without God!

I have heard that Christians have been heavily criticized for this view of atheism: which I find rather astonishing.

Friedrich Nietzsche, Jean Paul Sartre, Albert Camus & Bertrand Russell were brilliant atheists that very forthcoming with their Nihilism. Without going into too much detail of their lives their work has been quite gloomy & some cases very macabre.

Your inquiry strikes a chord with me personally and I too suffer with depression. When I had rejected God for a brief time I clearly remember looking out of a window and facing a nothingness, a grim darkness. No other religion seemed to answer the question of existence.

New Commandment Rule 10 (as published in "The God Delusion"(p299)):
Question everything.

St. Paul said the same to the Church of Thessalonica:
Test everything hold fast on to the good (1Thes. 5: 21 NKJV).
This is common ground point we all hold on to at Two Plus Two

Needless to say, if God exists there is purpose, meaning, and true good. This does not make his existence true.

Ravi Zacarias wrote "The reality is that if religion is to be treated with intellectual respect, then it must stand the test of truth, regardless of the mood of the day (italics mine,p ix "Jesus Among Other Gods").

Arguments, evidence, reason helped me to come back to God.

Keep searching!!! Question, question, question

I dont see how our lives are precious. There are 7 billion people on the planet right now all wandering around, thinking their special when to me its the exact opposite. 7 billion insignificant little dots, travelling into oblivion having a deaths grip around whatever idiotic beliefs they hold because it gets them through the day, or because thats the right thing to do, look at them as they dance their way into the grave and harp on about how great their morals are.

Precious?..........far from it.

Precious to ourselves i think he means. My life (and health) are more precious to me than anything.

Then your life is a joke.

Seems relevant.

You make this sound like a bad thing. Whats the alternative? to help 10 people out in the hopes that 1 person will help back?

I guess my gripe is that I have been following the rules and doing what I'm told to do but not getting back anything in return other than to live another day........nothing more to life is there? just survive....

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I might go to church this week see what happens.

You are so ripe to be "born again" it's scary. You hate life, so it seems you would like to be "saved" from it. You don't know how to value life, so throwing it away to Jesus will be the logical next step. You have no self-esteem, and have admitted you are not particularly good at anything, and have admitted that you don't see the point of being good at anything, and people around you don't seem to have much use for you. I would say you are due to become a Splendour-type mystic in very short order. People who are "saved", are usually saved from themselves in the final analysis. And you really do seem like an excellent candidate for a transmogrification of this type.

transmogrification, thats a word you dont see everyday, trans·mogri·fi·cation I had to google that one.

Thought you were done with me, and that I was to be avoided.....any-whoo!!,

I can picture myself going to church and end up shouting out to the minister "Thats wrong" while pointing to 2+2 RGT on my phone.......so I cant see myself becoming a Splendour-type mystic,but if I did, who cares as long as I'm happy, which is the end goal IMO.

Also people around me do have a lot of use for me, work and paying bills and what-not.

Good to see you back in my threads s-a-n-d-s-m-a-r-c.

No, you won't shout at any ministers.

Atheists always think they have to be able to explain everything.

You don't. Explain the creation?...who's going to do that...they are still trying today...

If you ask me someone fooled them into thinking they have to answer the wrong question and know everything but we can't even remember everything.

The only question people are called by Jesus Christ to answer is the one Peter answered in Matthew 16.