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Originally Posted by nobodynobodybutyou
If Judeo-Christianity isn't the basis of western morality then what is? I'm not saying it is perfect, far from it, and it evolves over time, but it certainly begins there.
Roman and Greek culture has had just as strong an impact imo. For instance, Roman law remains the bedrock of most legal systems in western cultures. Plato, Aristotle, the Stoics, and so on contributed much more to our theoretical understanding of morality.
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Up until the enlightenment and you could even say up until Nietzsche proclaimed the death of god everyone used the bible as a guide for being and as the basis of morality, that was only about 150 years ago.
This overrates the importance of the Bible, which wasn't that widely read except by clergy before the Reformation.
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You point out torture, slavery, burning of supposed witches etc as being a result of the bible, and I agree. It's not like we've really done much better since then without the bible . World wars, the holocaust, the gulags in Russia to name a few things, and again today the world is splitting into the far right and the far left, if history is any indication not good places to go.
I don't agree. Torture, slavery, human sacrifice were all common in non-Christian societies. My guess is that Christian values contributed more to these things being rejected by most modern Western cultures.
I'm also confused as to why you think the twentieth-century was not a Christian century. That was probably the high point of world dominance by societies with Christian backgrounds. For instance, the US, certainly still a Christian country in many ways, was the dominant power for most of the century. I suspect you are reading back from the increasingly secular society of today to the society of hundred years ago.
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The enlightenment and specifically science showed that when taken literally a lot of the stories of the bible and explanations given by religion for things in the world, like for example epileptic fits being caused by demonic possession, are wrong, so we can discount those explanations. But that doesn't mean the whole thing has to be throw out, and it definitely doesn't mean the guides about modes of being in the world embedded within biblical stories are wrong.
I think there are interesting lessons to be drawn from the Bible and religion more generally and that secular people who ignore them are making a mistake. The mere fact that the Bible has remained such a potent source of real change in people's lives over millenia should be sufficient for this to be true. It is a very reasonable life to start with a religion as your Bayesian prior and work from there.
However, religion is now just one of many things that can provide this sense of order in people's lives. Furthermore, religion's ability to provide this order has been greatly weakened. Insofar as they see their views as true, religious people are forced to confront the fact that most reasonable people disagree with them in a way they didn't need to as much in the past. This leads to the unpleasant choice between fundamentalism and religious liberalism.
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Important point: For anyone who knows of Jordan Peterson and has listened to him / read his work, yes I am largely repeating things he has said and so a lot of the arguments I am presenting are his arguments.
I listened to the Harris podcasts, but I'm not sure what it is that people like about Peterson on religion beyond his adoption of a pragmatic view of truth. Sure, there are important cultures archetypes in religious mythology. But this doesn't incentivize me to worship Zeus.