Originally Posted by Aigyptos

Didn't Jesus give the NT commandments yet?

Originally Posted by Concerto

You would lose the bet because Jesus is the source of that information. He said not one jot or tittle would pass from the law until "all is fulfilled" by which He meant events which eventually occurred in 70 AD, as He clarified elsewhere.

Originally Posted by JohnOneOne

As can be witnessed above, without specifically mentioning Jehovah's Witnesses' "New World Translation" of 'theos' in John 1:1c as, "and the Word was a god," many can be found to miss the point that the reason for translating in this way is simply because both the Greek grammar (syntax) and context require it.

With respect to the Greek grammatical syntax (word order), this is 'a singular anarthrous predicate noun *preceding the verb* and subject noun (stated or implied)' - that is, not just that use of the noun 'theos' in the third clause lacks the Greek definite article.

(In the Greek language of this period, there was no such thing as an indefinite article; therefore, depending upon the grammar, syntax as well as the imediate, global and cultural context of the phrase, when translating to English, the decision on whether to add an indefinite article or not would be decided by the translator.)

This would therefore explain why some of the examples many feel inclined to provide (such as when translating 'theos' as "God" and not "a god" at John 1, verses 2, 6, 12, 13, 18 and 51), simply do not apply; for, at those other instances, the syntatical (word order) criteria is not the same as that found within John 1:1c.

Now, with regard to some specific examples of Biblical verses which do represent the same, basic, Greek grammatical construction of John 1:1c, please examine the following within your own prefered translation of the Bible and see whether the translators had, themselves, appreciated the need to insert either an "a" or "an" there. At each of the cases below, it has been found that most Bibles consistantly do:

Mark 6:49; 11:32; John 4:19; 6:70; 8:44a & b; 9:17; 10:1, 13; 12:6.

At each of the above verses, identity of the one being discussed was not at issue; no, but rather, the class of the individual is.

Following this same syntactatical pattern as that found within John 1:1c, it should be easy to appreciate how that Jesus ("the Word") can also be properly identified as "a god"; and certainly not as "God," the one of whom he was just said to be "with" (1:1b).

On the question of how Jesus could be called "a god," when in discussion of Jesus' own reference to others called "gods" (John 10:34, 35, quoting from Psalm 82:6) there is this:

"The Hebrew for ‘gods’ (‘elohîm) could refer to various exalted beings besides Yahweh [or, Jehovah], without implying any challenge to monotheism,…"

Taken from: Blomberg, Craig L. (b.?-d.?). "The Historical Reliability of John’s Gospel: Issues & Commentary." (Downers Grove, Illinois: InterVarsity Press, c2002), "The feast of Dedication" ([John] 10:22-42), p. 163. BS2615.6.H55 B56 2002 / 2001051563.

Obviously, there need be more evidence to substantiate such a translation, that is just one of the many points we hope to address within our forthcoming work entitled, "What About John 1:1?" (not to be ready for another year or so).

To learn more of its design and expected release date, we invite you to visit:



As you might expect, we are very excited at the opportunity to share our findings with others.

Agape, JohnOneOne.
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Originally Posted by Concerto

However one parses the fine points of grammar, it remains necessary to have a doctrine that is consistent throughout the Bible. There are plenty of Biblical passages that are inconsistent with Jesus being God and therefore falsify that hypothesis. For example:

Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

John 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

And my personal favorite:

Matthew 26:39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Originally Posted by Concerto

However one parses the fine points of grammar, it remains necessary to have a doctrine that is consistent throughout the Bible. There are plenty of Biblical passages that are inconsistent with Jesus being God and therefore falsify that hypothesis. For example:

Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.