Jan F. Brouwer containment thread

[zumby]

So why bring up chimps in defense of your argument about naturalism? This is what I'm talking about where you don't even understand what you SHOULD be arguing. If you want to attack naturalism/reductionism you should be going down the road of arguing that it leads to nihilism i.e. if one believes everything is purely atomic/mechanical interactions then one can have no values. This argument is a non sequitur, but it at least would show some basic understanding of the concepts. Instead you are trying to argue that a naturalist worldview leads to sexism. This makes no sense.

I suspect that you are conflating naturalism (the belief that there is no supernatural dimension or force in the universe) with the naturalistic fallacy (the belief that what is natural is good).

[Splendour]

Originally Posted by zumby

So why bring up chimps in defense of your argument about naturalism? This is what I'm talking about where you don't even understand what you SHOULD be arguing. If you want to attack naturalism/reductionism you should be going down the road of arguing that it leads to nihilism i.e. if one believes everything is purely atomic/mechanical interactions then one can have no values. This argument is a non sequitur, but it at least would show some basic understanding of the concepts. Instead you are trying to argue that a naturalist worldview leads to sexism. This makes no sense.

I suspect that you are conflating naturalism (the belief that there is no supernatural dimension or force in the universe) with the naturalistic fallacy (the belief that what is natural is good).

Lol...

I'm freethinking....I don't have to go down any predetermined path that men have traversed before that is the beauty of free thinking.

[EnlightenedRaise]

Originally Posted by Splendour

Lol...

I'm freethinking....I don't have to go down any predetermined path that men have traversed before that is the beauty of free thinking.

but..but..

that means i can't debate you!

boooo!
start a bloooggg!!

[Splendour]

Originally Posted by EnlightenedRaise

but..but..

that means i can't debate you!

boooo!
start a bloooggg!!

Meh. Debating is such an atavistic throwback activity....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atavism

[zumby]

Originally Posted by Splendour

Lol...

I'm freethinking....I don't have to go down any predetermined path that men have traversed before that is the beauty of free thinking.

Your interpretation of 'free thinking' is indistinguishable from 'not thinking', just fyi.

[Splendour]

"Freethought is a philosophical viewpoint that holds opinions should be formed on the basis of logic, reason and science and not authority, tradition, or other dogmas."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_thinking

I believe science is in support of my sexism is a part of nature.
Sexism Is Widespread in Nature
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Sexis...re-61263.shtml

Not that anybody needs science. It's commonly observed by most people throughout various societies and human history. It's so widespread it's ludicrous to blame it on monotheistic religions. There's got to be an underlying cause wider than any religion because no one religion encompasses the whole world yet sexism is found throughout the world. So its' basis is found primarily in human nature.

[asdfasdf32]

Originally Posted by Splendour

"Freethought is a philosophical viewpoint that holds opinions should be formed on the basis of logic, reason and science and not authority, tradition, or other dogmas."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_thinking

You're not doing it right.

[Splendour]

Originally Posted by asdfasdf32

You're not doing it right.

That's the oldest sexist put down in the world, y'know...lol.

[Jan F. Brouwer]

Deep down each of us is a place where we are utterly invincible, where nothing can harm us, where a powerful bliss descends on us by simply being there. Meister E. calls it our 'stronghold', a military metaphor that is in more than one way aptly chosen.

At first this stronghold seems to be in alien hands and needs to be conquered by us. We long to be the commander of this bastion, because we know it possesses all the riches of the world. With all mystical and spiritual means we seek to conquer it, that we, by operating from within this stronghold, may rule ourselves and our world.

But we can only succeed in conquering this stronghold when we strike up an alliance with the ruling commander. The stronghold is too well fortified. Its thick Cyclopic walls show no weak spot to assail through. We must take over the stronghold by becoming the ruling commander ourselves (or become like Him). Only through this alliance can we become Kings.

Now we have become sovereign Kings ourselves, the stronghold is ours. We do not need to conquer it anymore. No more nightly raids and campaigns to assail its thick walls. We can rest now. We are now among the most powerful in the world.

Ein fester Burcht ist unser Gott.

[EnlightenedRaise]

[neeeel]

Originally Posted by Jan F. Brouwer

Deep down each of us is a place where we are utterly invincible, where nothing can harm us, where a powerful bliss descends on us by simply being there. Meister E. calls it our 'stronghold', a military metaphor that is in more than one way aptly chosen.

At first this stronghold seems to be in alien hands and needs to be conquered by us. We long to be the commander of this bastion, because we know it possesses all the riches of the world. With all mystical and spiritual means we seek to conquer it, that we, by operating from within this stronghold, may rule ourselves and our world.

But we can only succeed in conquering this stronghold when we strike up an alliance with the ruling commander. The stronghold is too well fortified. Its thick Cyclopic walls show no weak spot to assail through. We must take over the stronghold by becoming the ruling commander ourselves (or become like Him). Only through this alliance can we become Kings.

Now we have become sovereign Kings ourselves, the stronghold is ours. We do not need to conquer it anymore. No more nightly raids and campaigns to assail its thick walls. We can rest now. We are now among the most powerful in the world.

Ein fester Burcht ist unser Gott.

This implies that there is a you that can go to that place, and that there is a place that the you can go to. Neither of these is true.

[Jan F. Brouwer]

Originally Posted by neeeel

This implies that there is a you that can go to that place, and that there is a place that the you can go to. Neither of these is true.

All spiritual search begins in duality, because that's where suffering is. No one is (in the beginning) free of suffering. The process takes time because the body is in time. The blockages needs to be undone till all the vasana's are wiped out from consciousness.

This all takes place against a background of 'always already enlightened'. The sun is always shining but the blockages are like clouds preventing our sun from shining.

Both the dual and the non-dual exist side by side. All spirituality takes place in duality. In Reality nothing ever evolves or happens. But don't fool yourself into thinking that nothing should be done or should not happen to you.

We both have a self and have no self (and neither because we transcend self and no-self).

We are both always already enlightened and in need of enlightenment (and neither).

The tetralemma is also valid here.

[asdfasdf32]

Originally Posted by Jan F. Brouwer

All spiritual search begins in duality, because that's where suffering is. No one is (in the beginning) free of suffering. The process takes time because the body is in time. The blockages needs to be undone till all the vasana's are wiped out from consciousness.

This all takes place against a background of 'always already enlightened'. The sun is always shining but the blockages are like clouds preventing our sun from shining.

Both the dual and the non-dual exist side by side. All spirituality takes place in duality. In Reality nothing ever evolves or happens. But don't fool yourself into thinking that nothing should be done or should not happen to you.

We both have a self and have no self (and neither because we transcend self and no-self).

We are both always already enlightened and in need of enlightenment (and neither).

The tetralemma is also valid here.

How many people make themselves abstract to appear profound. The most useful part of abstract terms are the shadows they create to hide a vacuum.
- Joseph Joubert

[shahrad]

Originally Posted by asdfasdf32

How many people make themselves abstract to appear profound. The most useful part of abstract terms are the shadows they create to hide a vacuum.
- Joseph Joubert

One should ask Joseph Joubert from 0 to 10 what do you think how abstract your claim is? And from 0 to 10 what do you think how big the shadows are that you did create with your claim in order to hide a vacuum?
Probably the more interesting question is: Where does the vacuum come from and why does everyone try to create shadows to hide the vacuum?

[Jan F. Brouwer]

Originally Posted by shahrad

Probably the more interesting question is: Where does the vacuum come from and why does everyone try to create shadows to hide the vacuum?

Because nothing terrifies us as much as the vacuum. But mystical spirituality discloses the vacuum to be full of life and blissfulness.

Emptiness is form, as the Master said.

The Source of our life is beyond fullness and vacuum. Rest in the vacuum and you'll become full again.