There is nothing explicit in the NT afaik, and in the OT there is only one verse I can think of, which says to not play games of chance. There are some other reasons that would suggest it's not right. For instance, gambling can often be addictive, which would be immoral. It's also not a very prudent use of money, or a faithful way to spend your money.

I personally don't view it as that bad if it's just for fun, going out to the casino and throwing a couple of bucks around that would otherwise go towards a movie or something seems okay, but I won't go so far as to condone it or condemn it, unless there is an obvious problem, like addiction of whatever.

I think you've misunderstood casting lots though. That specifically is to get clear direction from God on an important matter. There is a time and a place for it, it has nothing to do with gambling.

I find the idea that a universe creating all powerful god would care if you play a card game quite... difficult, to comprehend. If the problem is money, give your winnings to charity, that way you'd be doing good.

In my book it is sinful that the sole basis for considering an action right or wrong is whether a doctrine states that it is right or wrong.

I respect law, but law without reason is inane.

I personally believe that it depends on the situation. I can imagine many scenarios, some okay and others not.

Playing cards with your buddies, and playing for a couple of bucks just to make it fun can be considered okay, but if you do it only for the purposes of winning money, the situation is now different, it's no longer for fun.

If you become obsessed with gambling and it becomes an addiction, it's clearly a vice.

As for playing poker for a living, I think that's another discussion altogether. I don't think it's right for myself, but I won't go as far as to tell you you shouldn't do it, or that it's wrong.

Right, AFAIK, The Quran or Bible dont actually talk about the game of poker, or for that matter, games that are similar to poker.


Here is part of the Islams take on gambling,

[Quran 2:219-220] They ask you about intoxicants and gambling: say, "In them there is a gross sin, and some benefits for the people. But their sinfulness far outweighs their benefit." They also ask you what to give to charity: say, "The excess." GOD thus clarifies the revelations for you, that you may reflect, upon this life and the Hereafter ...

Isnt that interesting, we see that even in the Quran, there are some benefits for the people who gamble.

The Bible seems to have an interesting take on gambling,

"Casting lots," the ancient version of gambling, was very common in many old societies. At Jesus's crucifixion, the soldiers cast lots for his clothes. However, in modern times we come across gambling, and not casting lots, in many situations. Although the Bible never specifically says gambling is bad, there are many Bible verses on gambling that instruct Christians to lead a holy, positive life. We gathered some of these Bible verses on gambling together for you to read. Reflect on these and pray to God, should you ever have a problem with gambling in your life!

more,

http://www.godvine.com/bible/category/gambling

I feel that the important thing is, if one is Muslim, Jewish, or Christian, that playing poker is ok. What is not ok, is using money from poker to do bad deeds. The Quran talks about doing good deeds for the world, if one plays poker and uses the money to build a hospital or school, then they are doing good for the world.

Obv, poker is in part, a game of chance, but again IMO, in order to say playing poker for money goes against Islam or Christianity one would need to have highly detailed proof from the Quran/Bible which specifically talks about the game of poker, or at least some type of game that is similar to poker. And I dont see this proof.

its not gambling if you know you are going to win.

Thank you for posting this.

I happy that everyone are discussing this as mature adults.

I have heard that money from gambling cant be given to charity? Is this true? That would mean, that i cant build a hospital from that money aswell? Or?

You could say that, but then roulette would not be gambling either?

If you keep doubling your bet, eventually it you will win? But you could also bust your BR, just like poker?

Exactly, with a little practice there is no reason we cannot consistently beat roulette.

Let me rephrase this to better capture my confusion. If you are playing poker than somehow you have decided that it is "ok". Either you do not believe it is actually a sin or you do not care that it is a sin. In either event, why are you concerned about helping someone else to play poker?

I believe its haram, because ISLAM says its haram.

When that is said, im still going to play and accept my "punishment", but im not gona make it worse by teaching others if it will bring me more sins.

one sin is ok, he just doesn't want to double sin. when it comes to facing the scales, every little bit counts.

--

it was said earlier 'all of his sins will come to me' - i dont think that's accurate. i think only this particular sin gets transferred. if i coach a poker player who kills somebody, i only enable his poker playing, that's the sin i participate in. his murder doesn't also fall onto me.

--

also lol at this about to turn into a martingale thread.

Catechism of the Catholic Church

"2413 Games of chance (card games, etc.) or wagers are not in themselves contrary to justice. They become morally unacceptable when they deprive someone of what is necessary to provide for his needs and those of others. The passion for gambling risks becoming an enslavement. Unfair wagers and cheating at games constitute grave matter, unless the damage inflicted is so slight that the one who suffers it cannot reasonably consider it significant.'


Never went to a Vegas night at church?

You've captured it well. Agreed.

You can never 'beat' roulette, in the sense that you are profiting from it long term, that's why it's still present in casinos.

A roulette wheel has a 'double zero' where all bets go to the house and because of that, over time, the house wins. The only system that could feasibly beat a roulette wheel, by constantly doubling bets, fails because all casinos have a house limit to prevent this from occurring. On top of all that, a skillful croupier can 'aim' the ball at certain parts of the wheel to avoid areas of the table where betting is heavy.

You can't beat roulette.

Only a single zero in Europe.

/nitpicking

martingale part is wrong. it cannot 'feasibly' beat a roulette wheel. the sum of -ev bets is necessarily -ev. house limits have absolutely nothing to do with it.

croupier part is also nearly certainly wrong. humans simply cannot duplicate the level of precision required for that sort of things. any narrative evidence to the contrary is either a lie, confirmation bias, or small sample size.

Eh, if you keep doubling your bet on a 50/50 eventually you win and win more than you lost....

You're wrong about the croupier bit, it can be done, not with a high degree of accuracy or consistency though. Your statement "humans simply cannot duplicate the level of precision required for that sort of things" is speculation on your part.

It's not a 50/50 though

In your opinion.

Unless you find winning money to be fun.

Since I don't find anything about being addicted to something to be 'immoral or wicked' I don't agree that it's a 'vice'. As long as everyone involved is a consenting adult.


But, we have Free will right? If the guy I'm playing chose to be there, wants to take my money, then I have no problem taking his. If he bankrupts himself and his family, then the solution is not hellfire and brimstone threats but simply, education.

Do you?

the prophet Mohammed professed the importance of abstaining from alcohol & gambling. dont forget about the importance of infanticide as well!
i love following these ancient teachings

except for the time that you dont

this is speculation on your part

Of course.

Just my opinion again. I think there is a difference.

This is subjective too, but I think many people will agree that addictions are vices, you don't have to be a theist to agree here.

I don't know about this, I haven't made up my mind one way or another, some of my friends are poker players. Like I said, I don't think it's right for me, but I won't condemn it or condone it.

I do think if someone has a gambling addiction, or is hooked on poker, and is losing money, then it could be seen as taking advantage of him and his situation, even if he is completely willing. It's enabling in a way, like handing a junkie a needle. Sure he's going to do it anyway, but I don't want to be the one to do it, and to profit off him.

I do understand the concept of consenting adults, so there is that too, like I said, I'm not sure.

Anytime you wanna do this let me know. I'll double down against you as many times as you want. I think I'd bankrupt you before that statistical loophole had a chance of playing out.

More informed than yours possibly, I've seen it done and I have a friend who's a croupier who explained how he does it and how it happens in the casino where he works.

It's not as hard as you make it sound. I'm not talking about hitting specific numbers, just an area on the wheel. You spin a wheel a few thousand times and I bet you could do it too.