Islam and poker (Coaching) - Religion, God, and Theology

So i was telling my friend, that there was a player who had already played poker for a while, but he was struggling to move up. So i offered him to get staked and coached by me.

My friend said that it was haram, and all of his sins will come to me.

Is this true? Im not teaching him poker, im just helping him improve his game.

Would appreciate some good answers.

Thank you.

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07-08-2014 , 05:47 PM

neeeel

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I dont think there are many, or any, experts on islam and what is haram and what isnt on this forum. Theres next to no actual muslims that are here for any amount of time. So I doubt you will get any answers.

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07-08-2014 , 05:47 PM

LEMONZEST

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Do you think poker is forbidden by Allah?

Quote:

Actions that are haram result in punishment, and are therefore considered a sin if carried out by a Muslim. An Islamic principle related to haram is that if something is prohibited, then anything that leads to it is also considered haram. A similar principle is that the sin of haram is not limited to the person who engages in the prohibited activity, but the sin also extends to others who support the person in the activity, whether it be material or moral support.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haram

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07-08-2014 , 05:50 PM

Naked_Rectitude

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OP, It also depends on whether you see it as a sin or not, to play poker. Or as haram.

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07-08-2014 , 05:58 PM

MeowImQh

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I definetly play poker mainly because i like it, not that much because of the money. When that is said, we cant deny that playing poker is haram, it is gambling.

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07-08-2014 , 06:01 PM

MeowImQh

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It is a kind of gambling that is strictly forbidden in Islam and explicitly banned in Quran (Muslims holy book that reflects real God words revelation to prophet Muhammad through the angel Gabriel)

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07-08-2014 , 06:02 PM

Naked_Rectitude

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If you have already concluded that it's wrong, then you're already doing wrong by playing it, where is your issue?

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07-08-2014 , 06:02 PM

MeowImQh

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Quote:

Originally Posted by LEMONZEST

Do you think poker is forbidden by Allah?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haram

My english is not perfect. So would this mean, if i help some person with a hand history review, this would make it haram and mean that all his sins with poker in the future will go to me aswell?

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07-08-2014 , 06:05 PM

MeowImQh

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Naked_Rectitude

If you have already concluded that it's wrong, then you're already doing wrong by playing it, where is your issue?

I know its haram, but that doesnt mean i wanna do more haram things than i have to. If you understand. I expect to stop playing poker in the future.

But i was told, if i learn a person play poker, then for everytime he plays, i will get some of his sins, because i was the one who learnt him.

But in my case, the person already knows the game, but im giving him money to play, and helping with him "improve", which should still be haram, but not as much as if i was actually teaching him poker?

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07-08-2014 , 06:07 PM

#10

LEMONZEST

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My english is not perfect. So would this mean, if i help some person with a hand history review, this would make it haram and mean that all his sins with poker in the future will go to me aswell?

Yes but more importantly you yourself play poker so you are responsible for that. Are you more concerned about someone else's sin being on you?

If you agree poker is haram (forbidden by Allah) then supporting your friend in playing poker will make you responsible for his sin as well.

Also it is silly for you to ask non moslems about what you are supposed to believe as a moslem...

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07-08-2014 , 06:10 PM

#11

Naked_Rectitude

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I'm not muslim, I'm a Christian, so I can't explain to you the rules of the Qu'ran.

I personally gave up playing poker because I did not believe it was right for me, and I would not feel right about showing my friend to do something which I myself do not consider right.

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07-08-2014 , 06:10 PM

#12

MeowImQh

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Alright, thank you for your answers. I was a bit desperate for them, so i asked here.

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07-08-2014 , 06:11 PM

#13

Naked_Rectitude

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I don't see why it would be right for you to help someone do something which you feel is wrong, I think you know the answer already.

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07-08-2014 , 06:57 PM

#14

LEMONZEST

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07-08-2014 , 07:14 PM

#15

starvingwriter82

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Naked_Rectitude

I don't see why it would be right for you to help someone do something which you feel is wrong, I think you know the answer already.

This.

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07-08-2014 , 08:04 PM

#16

thekid345

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MeowImQh

Gambling is not allowed in both Christianity and Islam, according to their books. But, some folks would say poker is not gambling, so poker is ok according to both Islam and Christianity.

As for coaching in poker, I cant see why your friend is saying this is haram, as your friend is already playing poker, which could be considered a sin, but may not be.

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07-08-2014 , 08:11 PM

#17

MeowImQh

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Originally Posted by thekid345

Yes, this is exactly what im thinking.

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07-08-2014 , 08:22 PM

#18

ganstaman

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Originally Posted by thekid345

But, some folks would say poker is not gambling

And some folks would be wrong.**

**Depending on your definition of gambling. By the dictionary definition and how the word is usually used, poker is most certainly gambling. By the legal definition, it depends on where you are because there is more than one legal definition of gambling. By the religious definition, well I have no idea to be honest.

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07-08-2014 , 08:34 PM

#19

MeowImQh

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I definetly do believe poker is gambling

----

As for coaching in poker, I cant see why your friend is saying this is haram, as your friend is already playing poker, which could be considered a sin, but may not be.

This is what im in doubt about.. Im not teaching him poker, just helping him improve his game. Idk really.

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07-08-2014 , 10:11 PM

#20

Naked_Rectitude

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Quote:

Originally Posted by thekid345

As for coaching in poker, I cant see why your friend is saying this is haram, as your friend is already playing poker, which could be considered a sin, but may not be.

I disagree here. If the OP believes it is wrong to do something, than aiding to commit that act, whether right or wrong, is bad in itself.

Aside from that, replace playing poker with something else, and it's easy to see why it's wrong. Imagine helping someone to become a better murderer, even though you're not murdering anyone yourself, it's pretty obvious it's not the right thing to do. If playing cards for money is immoral, then helping someone to play cards for money will likewise be bad.

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07-09-2014 , 12:31 AM

#21

RLK

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I must be missing something. I understand the idea behind haram in some contexts. If I did not play poker but I enabled or aided someone in playing, then I would also be guilty of the sin of poker. Cool.

But if you are already playing poker, then you are already guilty of the sin of poker. Helping someone else to play is not really adding to the situation. You have already chosen to disregard the prohibition against poker. I just do not see the issue.

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07-09-2014 , 12:34 AM

#22

starvingwriter82

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Originally Posted by thekid345

Gambling is not allowed in both Christianity and Islam

Source on gambling explicitly being against the rules in Christianity? The Bible is littered with instances of holy people "casting lots" (the equivalent of drawing straws or flipping a coin) including Acts 1:26 where they straight up gamble to determine who is going to replace Judas as a disciple. This action is never condemned.

AFAIK you can cite passages that maybe might imply gambling isn't advised, but nothing that outright forbids it.

Gambling is one of those things imo that Conservative Christians have decided is always evil and lean on the Bible to justify it, rather than the other way around.

Last edited by starvingwriter82; 07-09-2014 at 12:41 AM.

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07-09-2014 , 12:46 AM

#23

starvingwriter82

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Originally Posted by ganstaman

People that say gambling is wrong but poker isn't gambling are the same sort of people who would earnestly agree with this video and not realize it's a joke.

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07-09-2014 , 01:16 AM

#24

Naked_Rectitude

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Quote:

Originally Posted by RLK

This seems like a strange stance to me. If you are doing something immoral, you are guilty of that sin, so you can now help someone to do the same immoral thing because you're already sinning? Not sure what you mean by "adding to the situation" but if you're helping someone to do something immoral, that would be wrong in itself, you are at least encouraging immoral behaviour.

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07-09-2014 , 02:00 AM

#25

WereBeer

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Check on a website devoted to answering Islamic queries, no point in asking a bunch of non-Muslim poker players what's up.

That said, yeah if helping people sin is sinful and gambling is sinful, helping people play poker is sinful.

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