" Extremists occupying large swaths of Iraq and Syria have issued a threat to Iraqi Christians in the city of Mosul to accept Islam, pay extra taxes to Islamic Sharia courts or face "death by the sword."

Convert, Pay Tax or Die

How many Christians live in Mosul?

After tomorrow, not many.

Can I ask what the point of this thread is?

Well, FWIW, there are Muslims/Christians who are bravely fighting against ISIS.


The thing is, ISIS is not running its Islamic courts in the proper manner. Famous Muslims of the past, such as Saladin, Omar, and Muhammad himself, did not kill Christians just for being Christians.

In his first public speech, the self proclaimed caliph of the "Islamic State", Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, a former Saddam Hussein strongman, was wearing a luxury watch. Would a self proclaimed caliph be wearing a luxury watch while a good # of people of Iraq/Syria are living in poverty?

Since he is wearing one, then the answer is yes, obviously a self proclaimed caliph would be wearing a luxury watch while people of iraq/syria are living in poverty.

Neel, this al-Baghdadi guy proclaims himself to be a Caliph, yet he is wearing a luxury watch, something that seemingly goes against Islam.

The point of my post still stands, ISIS is carrying out acts that go against Islam and we also have Muslims/Christians who are fighting against ISIS.

fyp

Bring forth some hard stats to prove your views.

If I wanted to agree with folks who harbor "protocols of the elders of Zion" talking points irt Islam, then I would go to stromfront.



I'm not surprised Lemon, you have pulled the above type of stunt on a # of occasions in response to pro Islam posts. How about you bring forth some stats and legitimate information instead of responding to folks with FYPS, or "hey Kid you ought to listen to what this certain poster aka racist/bigot is telling you about Islam". Legitimate criticism of Islam is one thing, but sometimes folks take things to far.

Some forms of Islam will be tolerant toward Christians and some forms of Islam will be violent towards Christians. I don't think this requires proof, it is readily apparent. If you want proof please refer to article linked in the OP.

It is the nature of religion to be subjective, just as you think Moslems who persecute Christians are bad Moslems they likely think you are a bad Moslem (that is to say those that don't persecute Christians are bad Moslems).

So is this just a 'see, Christians ARE being persecuted' thread?

Meh, religious people persecuting each other is one of the more embarrassing aspects of our 'them and us' culture but it doesn't really require examination, it's easy to understand why it happens.

This is a perfectly valid topic for RGT and I don't understand your objection.

My objection is that it simply seems to be raising a flag for persecuted Christians and isn't actually intended as a topic for debate or discussion. After all, where is the scope for discussion in the OP?

Yes, Christians are being persecuted by ISIS, no one can dispute that or the reasons for why it's happening. The OP isn't even trying to persuade anyone of anything or present any kind of argument. Now what...

How about waiting to see how the discussion develops before writing it off in post 4. Where would you expect a discussion of people possibly facing death for their religious beliefs to be conducted.

I didn't 'write it off in post 4', I asked a question about the point of the thread and got no reply. Since I had no reply, the next time I posted about it I gave voice to my speculation and even then I did it as a question. Then I said about as much as I'll ever be able to say about the subject of the religious persecuting other religious people.

I think my assessment of the OP is correct but if you want to discuss 'people possibly facing death' (use rhetoric much?) go for it. I'll be interested to see if anything interesting can actually develop from this OP that doesn't even state an opinion or give an argument.

From the linked article

So no it's not particularly rhetorical and I apologise for no one answering your loaded question best to leave RGT to threads you create and barely understand.

Would you be less nonchalant if the story was about atheists being threatened with death, unless they confessed to have faith?

It seems to me that a big part of RGT is the ability to accept other perspectives, of which the ISIS is seemingly incapable of. This may not be the best conversation starter, but it's certainly not irrelevant.

ISIS is committing crimes against humanity including murder of civilians, denying food to Christians, seizing churches, all in the name of Islam. ISIS has the support of many Sunni Muslims.
To say that its leader is not a true Muslim is akin to saying former Pope Benedict is not a true Christian due to his fondness for custom red shoes and special cologne. ISIS s a prime example of the dangers of mixing religion and government.
I'm an atheist BTW.

I never said it wasn't true, I accused you of using it as rhetoric to somehow devalue my opinion that this thread can't turn into any kind of interesting subject to discuss, because 'people might die!'. People might die, and that's awful, and one of my least favourite things about religion, but that doesn't change what I'm saying.

First you falsely accuse me of 'writing it off', then you fail to understand what I meant when I accused you of using rhetoric, and then below you actually resort to direct insults? What's going on with you?

Wow, it really doesn't take much to make you get all hostile with me does it.

Seriously, I'm still waiting for this thread to turn into an interesting exchange of opinion but I don't see how anyone can have any other opinion than 'this is terrible' and that's why I think it's simply a 'Christians are being persecuted again' thread.

What's your contribution?

Firstly, nonchalant is not what's happening here. This subject interests me greatly and I have strong opinons on it, and I'm also very aware that people might die because they happen to believe in a different version of god to someone else. But - what is there to actually discuss? Is someone going to defend ISIS? If so, we have a conversation, but I seriously doubt that will happen.

What perspective has been offered? None. The OP simply mentions something awful but that no one is going to disagree about. That's exactly my point.

Can you turn this into something we can actually discuss?

Ok, it's awful and we all hope it stops happening. I'm being sincere.

You still didn't answer my question though, what is the purpose of this thread?

No one thinks you support ISIS killing Christians or want this to happen. Rather, I think the criticism is that it is an inappropriate (because it shows an lack of empathy and compassion for the victims) response to an article about the murder of hundreds of innocent people, especially Christians, and the threat to murder many more to ask why it is relevant.

Sure, it is fair to think that the OP should have commented on the article--that is the typical norm around here--but concentrating your only two posts in this thread on that and acting nonchalant about the atrocities described makes you seem indifferent to the fate of Christians in Mosul. Rightly or wrongly, many of the Christians who read you will think this indifference is in part because of a prejudice against Christians.

When it comes to this forum, by far the biggest discussion that touches on Islam is a a debate along the lines of "is Islam is far worse than Christianity?" or perhaps debating what kind of rhetoric is and is not appropriate on the whole Islam vs Christianity thing, debating how much qualification is needed (see the "some forms" from LZ) and the like. There are certainly many people (and I have no idea if the OP is among them) who like to go around bringing up the worst examples of things muslims do as part of this larger debate. As usual, Mightyboosh acts with an air of innocence when I suspect what he is really doing is saying "hey, are you doing [what I just typed out] here", but I don't think it is actually unreasonable to ask if this is what is being done.

I actually don't see much interesting about this to discuss on a religion forum. There is plenty of interesting geopolitics, but I'd be surprised if the discussion actually turned to something outside of the above.

Frankly, I think quite a bit higher of the Christians on the forum than this. The idea that MB is so prejudiced against specifically Christians (and not muslims?) that he just doesn't care about such an abhorrent threat that is entirely counter to any principle in western morality is so ridiculously stupid that (exempting possibly Doggg) nobody could reasonably think such a thing. I suppose Naked Rectitude said something rhetorically along these lines, but unless he corrects me I highly doubt he actually thinks anyone on this forum is so prejudiced against christians that they don't care about mass murders of christians.

I don't believe MB doesn't care about murder, that would be an offensive and unwarranted accusation. I do believe he was slightly flippant, shown by his use of "meh", but as he explained and for which I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, this was more to do with the format of the thread, than with the content. I admire MB for his attitude of wanting to learn and the ability to admit mistakes, but it does seem that his dislike of religion is often evident in his thought process. Correct me if I'm wrong, MB, just an observation.