I decided to go w my friends to a non denominational church because as an atheist who had never been, i wanted to know what it was like. About 5 minutes in i got annoyed and started taking notes on things that bothered me or were logical fallacies. Im curious as to how Christians actually accept this stuff as if it were fact when it theres obvious falsities.

My notes(my phone died 1/2 way through and i didnt have paper)

-Pastor claimed christianity has freedom, but other religions are slaves

-He argued that if we can be good just by morals, then Jesus died for nothing. And that just cant be true

-Joy comes purely from loving god

-Said salvation cant be lost, but we are losing our salvation?

-If you dont believe or follow christianity to the T youll be eternally cursed(a common but disgusting claim by the religious)

-Saying you believe in god/jesus isnt enough to be saved...Contrary to popular argument

-Can only be free from the opinions of others through belief in Christ(Well then leave others alone and stop spouting you bs beliefs upon others)

-Freedom only comes from a belief in god(yet that requires being enslaved by god

-Said that god is doing us a favor and that all of us really deserve to rot in hell

-Praised god for child sacrifice(another disgusting biblical truth)

-they showed a video of this kid(about 15) saying that now that he can picture heaven, what happens in the real world is unimportant(A disgusting lesson to teach kids)

-Also at the end he said you MUST get your children involved in church, if you dont they wont grow up to be good people

Christians can you defend/explain how these statements are moral teachings?

Edit: Left this out but they played this song about being free and in the same song they said that gods reign will last forever(freedom under eternal dictatorship?)

-Pastor claimed christianity has freedom, but other religions are slaves

An obvious claim to make for a religion that thinks they're the only way to heaven, not sure why you're surprised.



-He argued that if we can be good just by morals, then Jesus died for nothing. And that just cant be true

Why not? The whole point of Jesus dying was that humans are too ****ty to get to heaven on our own. If we could, what is the point of Jesus's death from a religious POV?


-Joy comes purely from loving god

Again, super common religious claim.


-Said salvation cant be lost, but we are losing our salvation?

This one stumps me. Lots of denominations think you can't lose salvation once you have it (or, you never really had it), but I don't get the second part.


-If you dont believe or follow christianity to the T youll be eternally cursed(a common but disgusting claim by the religious)

-Saying you believe in god/jesus isnt enough to be saved...Contrary to popular argument

The follow up is probably "you have to believe he died for your sins" etc.

-Can only be free from the opinions of others through belief in Christ(Well then leave others alone and stop spouting you bs beliefs upon others)

-Freedom only comes from a belief in god(yet that requires being enslaved by god

Common belief: all humans are sinners and just can't help but going around sinning, unless they have Jesus. From that perspective, every is a slave to sin.


-Said that god is doing us a favor and that all of us really deserve to rot in hell

Again, humans are ****bags without Christ.


-Praised god for child sacrifice(another disgusting biblical truth)

At least they're consistent.

-they showed a video of this kid(about 15) saying that now that he can picture heaven, what happens in the real world is unimportant(A disgusting lesson to teach kids)

-Also at the end he said you MUST get your children involved in church, if you dont they wont grow up to be good people

Christians can you defend/explain how these statements are moral teachings?

Edit: Left this out but they played this song about being free and in the same song they said that gods reign will last forever(freedom under eternal dictatorship?)




****

Seems like you went in expecting to be pissed off, and weren't disappointed. Grats?

Church is creepy imo.

all those people chanting in unison and what not. gives me the willies.

-Said salvation cant be lost, but we are losing our salvation?

Some groups aren't into easy believism which is a generalized misassumption by a lot of posters in this forum possibly from attending only one denomination and accepting explanations and not reading the scriptures for themselves. Some groups believe salvation is eternally secure while other groups believe it can be lost while other groups believe in a dual salvation i.e. the salvation of the spirit and the salvation of the soul.

One of the dual views explained here: http://www.ffruits.org/v03/judgmentseatofchrist.html

Going to 1 church 1 time certainly qualifies as a valid sample in any experiment.

We should keep this thread running and let other regulars here post their experiences.

I agree.

I'm sure they will be totally accurate and full of valuable comments.

Let's see... I don't believe in a God but I'm going to attend a place where those who DO believe worship this God in the manner they believe in.
I'm sure I'll enter this place totally open to new ideas and I'll be enlightened and unbiased in my discoveries.

Best thread ever!

You're not answering any of the things i wrote... If this church's preachings are different than most others you can write that, however what you wrote earlier is a cop-out at best

Joey rarely posts anything of substance. Not that he never does...just rarely.

Discouraging unbelievers from going to church Joey? Whut? Encourage them to keep going, even if one church doesn't jibe well with them because of theology or whatever reason. No church gets everything right.

Yes...unlike this incredibly well-thought addition to the thread.

Well done!

Reading comprehension much? Please outline in bold where I "Discourag(ed) unbelievers from going to church".

Pretty sure my post was exactly the opposite stating that going only once would not give you a very good example of churches.

Wow.

In short... You will never find anything at a Christian church that you agree with until you accept the existence of God. It's seriously impossible. I encourage you to first seek knowledge of the religion before you attempt to participate in any ritual or gathering.

I also honestly have to doubt the validity of all your statements... unless you went to a skinhead-radical church.
Humans deserve to rot in Hell? Never heard that...not in 3 years of religious studies at UCLA and UT or in any church I've ever attended from Southern Baptist to Catholic.

Praised God for child sacrifice? Never heard anything even remotely like this.

If you dont get your kids involved in church..they wont grow up to be good people?
Never heard this...again... was this an Aryan Nation church?

^^ I've heard pretty much all of these (sans child sacrifice, but I have heard a defense of Israel killing children of rival nations many times, including ITF), from any number of denominations from Southern Baptist to Pentecostal, Black to White and everything in between.

I sat in a service last week and had to listen to the preacher talk about how Christians are smarter than non-Christians because they have the Bible.

I think the child sacrifice part is the Jesus crucifixion story. Which is in pretty much every church.

That sounds a bit more likely.... I guess it's all in the interpretation of the delivered message... unless the pastor actually said "God praises child sacrifices" and left it at that.

My main point is that if you disagree with the basic ideology of a subject (religion) it's very likely you are also going to disagree or not understand the explanation and/or delivery of the message.

Raise your hand if you think this atheist went into that church with an open mind to begin with. He was obviously looking for things to disagree with to begin with...hence the note taking of all the things he perceived as negative or "wrong".

If it's Christianity you look to understand... i would not recommend going to a denomination that is extreme... ie Southern Baptist.... Church of Christ.

Try a bible study group or a non-denomination church. Maybe even take a class at a Jr. College.

True. If you went to a secret atheist baby eating shindig you would probably disagree and not understand us eating babies and hating Jesus.


It does seem like he went to church to get a list of faults. But to be fair you are disagreeing with some of the preachers doctrine too. Would your mind be opened if you went to that church? Or would you have a list of wrongs in your head?


He did go non denominational.

I agree with you overall though. Why go to church and start listing faults. If you are going to go as a non believer and the preachers words make your head want to exploded just daydream about the hookers and coke which will be at the baby eating shindig.

Exactly...and I've been to several.


My mind would be open because I would enter the church with the idea that we had the same common beliefs. IF and a big IF he actually said all these things exactly the way they are described here..I would disagree with his interpretation of the Word.
Calling a bird a duck doesn't make it a duck.
You make me laugh.

In my experience going to church in the past, I have encoutered a few times I remember the speaker saying things that would sound terrible out of context (especially to someone unfamiliar with christianity), and/or may conflict with the actual theology of that church. I remember thinking something along the lines of: they might just be trying to say something slighty controversial, in order to give themselves more to talk about, or as just a way of trying to make people think about what was said. In the worst of examples of this, it even seemed like the speaker simply was caught up in themselves, to the point of bordering on megalomania. How many times can you eat the same meal, before you decide to add a little salt and pepper, though?

one example: In the spring of 1997, a guest evangelist was explaining how to convert nonbelievers by staying on the offensive and asking people direct questions regarding their opinion of life after death, and their likelihood of salvation in a heaven & hell model. He mentioned how he was just recently on a plane with John Denver, and had "witnessed" to him. He told of how John Denver didn't want anything to do with him or his questions, and then went on to describe with much ferocity how he had seen the devil in his soul, and was troubled that this great folk singer had such a disdain for jesus. He said he was making John Denver his special prayer project.

Maybe if john had listened then Jesus wouldn't have steered his plane into that mountain. Huh? Who's laughing now Mr. Sunshine on my g-damn shoulder John Friggin Denver?! Yea ! Getcha some of that !