Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Religion, God, and Theology Discussion of God, religion, faith, theology, and spirituality.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-08-2017, 12:11 PM   #26
ARCANGEL0
veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 2,063
Re: how does anyone believe in religion don't understand

if u r happy that they killed osama u r not a real christian bro
ARCANGEL0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2017, 12:50 PM   #27
karmarein
self-banned
 
karmarein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 292
Re: how does anyone believe in religion don't understand

People don't kill each other because of religion.

They kill each other because they feel some type of injustice has taken place and they therefore have the moral high ground. They then use their religion to confirm this.

Religion isn't about some mystical magical rules brought down from the sky. It's about a code of values, ethics, philosophies, and standards to govern society.

Every tenet in religion has some practical, logical purpose for being a rule. But there is a mask of mysticism incorporated for people who don't understand the wisdom, but need to be encouraged to comply anyway.

It's like Santa Clause. When you're a kid you believe and celebrate the holiday based on this belief. When you get older you stop believing in Santa Clause but you keep celebrating the holiday anyway. You appreciate the meaning behind Christmas as a joyful occasion where we share with one another and how this celebration has an important role in keep society together.
karmarein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2017, 06:48 PM   #28
tame_deuces
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
tame_deuces's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 13,006
Re: how does anyone believe in religion don't understand

Quote:
Originally Posted by karmarein View Post
People don't kill each other because of religion.

They kill each other because they feel some type of injustice has taken place and they therefore have the moral high ground. They then use their religion to confirm this.

Religion isn't about some mystical magical rules brought down from the sky. It's about a code of values, ethics, philosophies, and standards to govern society.

Every tenet in religion has some practical, logical purpose for being a rule. But there is a mask of mysticism incorporated for people who don't understand the wisdom, but need to be encouraged to comply anyway.

It's like Santa Clause. When you're a kid you believe and celebrate the holiday based on this belief. When you get older you stop believing in Santa Clause but you keep celebrating the holiday anyway. You appreciate the meaning behind Christmas as a joyful occasion where we share with one another and how this celebration has an important role in keep society together.
Nah, this is a gross oversimplification and a dangerous one at that.

We know people will kill for ideals and we know religion (in the sense of organized human activity) is a powerful mover of ideals. To think that religion (again in the sense of human activity) can't be the source of harmful ideals is naive. Perhaps some use religion (willfully or ignorantly) as an excuse, but I have no problem wagering that most who commit atrocities in the name of religion believe their claims.
tame_deuces is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2017, 08:19 PM   #29
David Sklansky
Administrator
 
David Sklansky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 13,329
Re: how does anyone believe in religion don't understand

Quote:
Originally Posted by karmarein View Post


Religion isn't about some mystical magical rules brought down from the sky. It's about a code of values, ethics, philosophies, and standards to govern society.

Every tenet in religion has some practical, logical purpose for being a rule. But there is a mask of mysticism incorporated for people who don't understand the wisdom, but need to be encouraged to comply anyway.
That's wishful thinking but basically not true. Reform Jews agree with you. But those religious people who are in the category of thinking that the supernatural is an essential part, even if the ethics is admirable, is like 90%. And that usually includes their specific precise details of the supernatural.
David Sklansky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2017, 08:38 PM   #30
karmarein
self-banned
 
karmarein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 292
Re: how does anyone believe in religion don't understand

Quote:
Originally Posted by tame_deuces View Post
Nah, this is a gross oversimplification and a dangerous one at that.

We know people will kill for ideals and we know religion (in the sense of organized human activity) is a powerful mover of ideals. To think that religion (again in the sense of human activity) can't be the source of harmful ideals is naive. Perhaps some use religion (willfully or ignorantly) as an excuse, but I have no problem wagering that most who commit atrocities in the name of religion believe their claims.
The whole purpose of religion is to move ideals, that's my point. But what you are missing is that ideals transcend religion. Ideals exist outside of religion. And often, people pervert their religious texts to justify their ideals.

That doesn't mean all ideas are optimal. But they are created by old (seemingly) wise men, to teach future generations what to do to survive. Secular philosophers do similar.

If you look at any tenet of a given religion, there is a purpose behind it. Whether you agree with the purpose or not doesn't mean it isn't viable (albeit suboptimal) strategy to increase survival of the followers.

Most who commit atrocities believe their claims, religious or not. The nazis weren't really motivated by religion, they were motivated by their hatred of the jews because they felt they were responsible for their depression.

If you look at any major atrocity that ever occurred you will find some reason or justification that transcends religion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sklansky View Post
That's wishful thinking but basically not true. Reform Jews agree with you. But those religious people who are in the category of thinking that the supernatural is an essential part, even if the ethics is admirable, is like 90%. And that usually includes their specific precise details of the supernatural.
I'm not sure if you're numbers are accurate, I'd say its closer to 80% if not even a little south of it. While the point might be true that the overwhelming majority of religious people believe in the supernatural, that doesn't mean the people who invented the religion (or govern it) didn't/don't do so for practical purposes. I mean the rules came from somewhere. And unless you believe God really "spoke" to people, you have to rationalize that it was men who created them, and there has to be some logical reason for it.

While the overwhelming majority of people may only comply because they believe in the supernatural, it doesn't mean they choose to hurt people because God says so, or that they wouldn't live a relatively moral life without the belief.
karmarein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2017, 10:49 PM   #31
David Sklansky
Administrator
 
David Sklansky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 13,329
Re: how does anyone believe in religion don't understand

Quote:
Originally Posted by karmarein View Post
While the point might be true that the overwhelming majority of religious people believe in the supernatural, that doesn't mean the people who invented the religion (or govern it) didn't/don't do so for practical purposes. I mean the rules came from somewhere. And unless you believe God really "spoke" to people, you have to rationalize that it was men who created them, and there has to be some logical reason for it.
The reason was to avoid the problem of the Prisoner's Dilemma. God's punishment forces you to cooperate. Moses got that. As did Jesus. Doubt that non Jews did though.
David Sklansky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2017, 01:09 AM   #32
Herbavorus_Rex
grinder
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Petrodollaria
Posts: 609
Re: how does anyone believe in religion don't understand

Quote:
Originally Posted by karmarein View Post
Religion isn't about some mystical magical rules brought down from the sky. It's about a code of values, ethics, philosophies, and standards to govern society.
Religion is a code of values, ethics, philosophies, and standards to govern society believed to be brought down from the sky. This last part is the only real possible distinction between a religion and a political ideology.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fasterlearner View Post
how does anyone believe in a religion?
As opposed to a political philosophy? I'm sure you'd agree that no government isn't an option.

I personally prefer the idea that God made the rules instead of committees.
Herbavorus_Rex is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.33 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ę 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online