It would be difficult to describe the color blue to a blind person, but the blind person presumably isn't going to carry on as if he/she understand what blue is.

If there are things that are impossible to understand on "a rational intellectual level" then don't pretend to understand them. Or demonstrate that there is some other kind of "level" that you can understand them on.

Let's say a miracle happens and the blind man would have seen the color blue for a few seconds, and then he goes blind again. Now he knows what people mean when they talk about the color blue.

You say "okay blind man, demonstrate to me that you know what the color blue looks like". You're asking for the impossible. Spiritual enlightenment cannot be forced or demonstrated to anyone. If it were that easy, Buddha would have probably had a much easier job.

Eyes and brains let us see color. What do you have that lets you experience whatever it is you are talking about?

For example, we can feel emotions, and be inspired, or motivated, or joyful, or tingles on the back of our neck, etc., but what reason is there to think that any kind of feeling is contact from a supernatural being?

Mind you, I'm not suggesting you have to have a good answer to this line of questioning. But it isn't reasonable to expect anyone to understand you or agree with you or be convinced by you, if all you can say is you know/feel/believe something that cannot be explained in words or rationally understood.

The experience is a realization. It's really just an aha-moment. It's incredibly simple, yet not easy to come by. That's basically what spiritual teachers spend their lives doing. They try to guide people to enlightenment.

I don't believe in supernatural beings. I believe any religion is (was) in essence a spiritual teaching. Unfortunately, the way we know "religion" today, it changed into the worshipping of some sort of external identity. People think about God or Allah and see an image in their head. They think he is right, and the other is wrong. And more so they like to point fingers to people who don't believe in what they believe. This has nothing to do with spiritual enlightenment. On the contrary, it's very ego driven. I'm convinced the majority of religious people nowadays are not awakened, but in fact have an incredibly strong ego that is manifested in whatever community they find themselves in. This is basically the opposite of what their religion is trying to teach them.

RobinAgrees was already talking about this. God (or whatever you want to call it) is everything and everywhere and it eternally unfolds in the present moment. Your consciousness is what enables this entire universe "to be". Without you, whatever situation you find yourself in right now, it wouldn't be there. You are God, as is everyone else, all beauty and all horror in the world. There is no right and wrong, everything is as it is. It requires no understanding. It only requires peace and acceptace with the present moment. Even if it's just for a few seconds. Stopping to try to understand or change anything, just allowing the present moment to "be", without judging it or attaching your own interpretation to it.

That's fine. I'm not here to convince anyone. Whatever you believe doesn't define what is real or unreal. It doesn't change anything. There are no good answers. I can only do my best to point you in the right direction. Laozi's first writing starts "The Tao that can be named is not the eternal Tao".

Think about the feeling of an orgasm. You know what that feels like. You are intelligent, you have language, and you and I both can think rationally. Let's say I have never experienced an orgasm before. Now try to "convince" or "describe" that feeling to me so that I understand what it feels like. It's impossible. As long as I did not actually experience it, anything you say will sound like jibber jabber. Does that mean orgasms do not exist because they cannot be rationally understood? What "level" does it require to understand orgasms?

But once you have gone through it (experienced it), suddenly all the jibber jabber makes sense.

You dont

But you dont have other option

Why don't you make up/write your own?, all the others are!

I was with mrmr when we tunneled into Fort Knox, took all the gold, hid it in our secret mountain lair and melted it down.

There, now you have the evidence of eyewitness testimony of two people -- with slightly conflicting stories, as eyewitness evidence is expected to do.

Now do you believe our story, or don't you?

There is no such a thing as "real" religion

It is you

Only you, the man that can determine, that can take a desicion.

You don't.

Anything is only as real as you choose to perceive its realness to you.

Only Man is God, without man. Only God is there.

This is a topic that atheists quite often bring up on youtube etc. Think Lawrence Krauss does so on a number of occasions. I think it was Richard Dawkins who put it so eloquently. The difference between an atheist and a theist is that atheists go one god further. Atheists simply eliminate all of the gods! Theists eliminate all of the gods except of course their chosen/ forced one!

It is a pretty sad state we currently live in. So many people, especially young kids are completely brainwashed and aren't allowed to think for themselves. I honestly believe religion is the biggest waste of time any modern thinking human can spend time on. It is such a childish endeavour, I am literally bemused how adults can believe such nonsense. I honestly feel as a nation we'd be much more advanced and better off without religion holding us back.

This is another thing that completely bewilders me. Theists must actually believe that their god is some ******ed child (that or they are ******ed children themselves). Why on earth would he send one group of people to hell and not the other. Just thinking of the two major religions. According to both, the other group will go to hell for believing in the wrong religion!

Wrong wrong wrong!!! Apparently he is not everything, because he is not me or a part of me!

Atheists have to open their mind in order to realise that God might not exist. Most atheist have a religious upbringing, yet these people have come to the conclusion through reasoning, logic and critical thinking that it is very unlikely that a deity exists. In their mind they have enough evidence to say to the world hey I am an atheist and I have doubts that any such deity exists!!!

I wonder how many religious people have done the same????

This is how stupid religious people are. This is the best one yet, I have debunked so far. Did you know that according to religious people, anybody that claims the bible or religion is not real is actually Satan himself or the whispers of Satan.

This is why they will not ever take the words of an atheist on board, in their delusional mind your words are that of the devil LOL. They instantly dismiss any logic from you.

Let me clear this up for the religious folk out there. Without the bible and religion their is also no Satan or devil right. The devil only exists in the Bible. Essentially what you believe is that atheists or people (devil) who say that religion does not exists are also saying that he himself (the devil does not exist). Why would Satan do such a thing??? He wants you to believe in him doesn't he???

let me clear this up for you Tsar, not all religious people share the same beliefs

Hi Tsar of Russia,

You started off with This is how stupid religious people are.

That's just as offensive and incorrect as the view that black, white, Jewish, Asian, and or non religious people are stupid.

One is a choice, one isn't. Choices can be stupid. Sometimes we can infer from stupid choices that the one who made that choice is likely stupid. I do not claim that this applies to all religious people. I just want to point out how stupid thekid's comparisons are.

Usually you take the religion your parents have. Depending on where you are born factors also in which religion you will follow. That's how ******ed religion actually is.

People have made up different versions of I think it is the Bakvangita, the Hindu religion thought of the first religion of mankind. You can only imagine how high those people were over in India, all that opium, charas, hasj, weed and magic mushrooms!!! No wonder the stories in these books are OUT OF THIS WORLD!

So how do you know one religion is right while all the other's are wrong, you ask? Just ask any poor delusional believer and he/she will simply tell you his/hers is the right one!

In my opinion they are either all RIGHT or all WRONG!

You're right it is offensive, but I don't care! The real question is, is it true? From my experience dealing with illogical believers, they have always been very narrow minded individuals. Be it in real life, the idiot Jehova witness who never leaves you alone. Be it on forums, it is always a one way street with you guys. You do not even ask questions, open your mind to the possibilities, but rather like to instantly teach other's about your faith, about god... Like you are all of a sudden qualified to teach, you are the word of god himself, the messenger! Let me ask you a simple couple of questions!
Who has appointed your god to be god?
Did he make himself god? A little egoistic in my opinion.
Am I allowed to be his god, why not?
How do you know the god you believe in is actually not someone else like satan pretending to be god?
Hope you answer!

LOL well spotted, but either way I do get his point!

Not all theists think this. And in my experience its the minority and its not even close.

Some do. Not many that have posted here and not many in my real life. Guess your millage varies.


Fwiw you seem narrow minded when you through around generalizations.

Perhaps a little narrow minded, maybe I should get out more. It was just an observation from past experiences and from my own research on the matter. Maybe I talked with the wrong crowd of religious people!

Anyways I have never met a believer that was open to the possibility that god does not exist, maybe you have but that's fine too!

And it's throw btw! Not through.

Sounds like you dont know many believers and mostly talking out your ass if you have never known one that says there is a possibility God does not exist. If you are going to attack them smugly you might want to do more then research!!

You have made no valid points except with a small minority, so i would say more. Or else you will keep making foolish generalizations which are more wrong then right.

Nope i was not there. How many you know or who you have met is not the point. The point is your view of theists is off and ignorant if you think they fit the box you want them in.

Ok i will kill myself now. But i cant suck Gods dick since i have no God and if i did he doesn't have one afaik.

For the record I have reported the Tsar's last post.