http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_apologetics
I think Christian apologists deep down believe there is a rational basis for their faith and a rational defense against objections to it. I think that deep down they believe they are doing something of value and probably something they were meant to do.


PairTheBoard

Is Einstein's space time continuum theory of gravity imaginary, religious, or like fixing a car?


PairTheBoard

And something their God tells them to do in the bible.

I'm not sure there's any exhortation to apologetics in the Bible

From the Wiki link - "Biblical Basis"

I think there's a difference between "rational basis for the faith" and "proof of the right religion".


PairTheBoard

I'll give 'em 1 Peter there. Forgot about that one.

I think sometimes apologetics in the modern form tries to hard to make Christianity explicitly rational, which is a mistake imo (without implying that I think Christianity is irrational; more like involves things that transcend rationality).

I assume you mean general relativity. It is falsifiable. It makes predictions which have been found to be accurate (after the fact; you know, genuine predictions).

Or did you mean Middle-East general relativity? Because in the middle east, most people believe a different version, have made observations that correspond to their version, and have built the last 100 years of physics successfully upon their version--- oh wait, that is exactly what has not happened, because it isn't make believe. So strike this second paragraph.

Depends on the definition of deep down. I believe that they have nagging doubts they don't express and try to repress. Sort of like stroke victims who claim that they are not paralyzed.

So is the space time continuum something real or something imaginary?

What about String Theory or quantum mechanics? Is our reality actually a system of eigenvalues on a manifold in a Hilbert Space (or some such thing)?

Which song is the "right" song. Which painting the "right" painting? Which poem the "right" poem. Should these things all be dismissed because they're not like "fixing a car"?


PairTheBoard

There's no strong exhortation but there are passages that support it, such as (loosely quoted), "Be ready to give an account for the faith that is within you".

Also see 2 Corinthians 10:5, Philippians 1:7, Titus 1:9.

FWIW, a Christian writer I much admire, Kierkegaard, despised apologetics (he sometimes made mistakes), as did the well known Reformed theologian, Abraham Kuyper.

My main concern in apologetics isn't to prove that God exists or that Christianity is true. It isn't even to prove that it's rational to believe that God exists or that Christianity is true. It is to show that neither is irrational - to remove the intellectual barrier - which you seem to have btw - that belief in God or Christianity is silly.

Curing disease is trivial compared to the state of one's soul.

Mark 8:36
For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world, and forfeit his soul?

Its only silly to think you are odds on. Even if you stipulate that atheists popped out of nothing contention is ridiculous.

Even if true it doesn't matter. Unless you are contending that all who are presently curing disease should switch to being apologists.

So you don't think Christianity is silly, just that it's silly to think probability favors Christianity? Or stated another way, if probability is against Christianity it still wouldn't be silly to be one?

I'm not sure what you think doesn't matter but I certainly don't think doctors should switch. Besides, you can do both - apologists don't have to be professionals. I'm not and I think very, very few should be full time. But if one has a real either/or choice to make, it should be for apologetics.

Or atheists in foxholes.

what your parents teach you at young age is put into your brain as fact. If they keep repeating it enough, it is a very strong fact.

I was raised religious. I guess they didnt put it in strongly enough, i started asking me exactly this question in my early teens. Still took me years to really get away from it. Before i dare to say anything `bad` about god without being afraid of going to hell.

ill never forget this guy that i met when i was 16, just gotten of of my religion well enough to start going really against it, met this other guy same age who said he was religious. I was stunned because this was and it still is, the most intelligence person i have ever met. So i just told him `thats BS, youre way too smart to be religious`. 2-3 years later he was off of it as well.

Indoctrination is an mighty thing and often stronger than common sense. Even the most intelligent people can struggle with it. Imagine how chance-less the less gifted must be when the indoctrination is done well.

I've never understood this.

I know this is a ridiculously small sample size, but I've had the unfortunate experience of spending the last days with three people that were atheists over the last 20 years. None of them were militant-athiest or anything, they just didn't believe in anything "supernatural". None of the three ever even mentioned any religious regrets, even when their death was impending.

I'm sure there are people that are so weak that they change their convictions based on their own fears, but I have yet to meet one. I think that this foxhole theory is prevalent because Christians assume that under the pressure of enough fear that everyone will abandon their beliefs. I'm not saying that in a derogatory way, I just have never really understood the reference (at least in any modern sense).

I think terrorists think something similar.

Lol if you can't see the difference between faith in yourself and a magical sky demon, I don't know what to tell you. But I'll give you a hint:

I have experience and proof of what I am capable of doing. So that faith is based on evidence. Faith in God is based on nothing but wishful thinking.

Similarly, if I say, "I have faith that LeBron James is going to make this free throw," it's simply because I've seen him do it over and over.

Get it?

Where you go wrong is your contention that attempting to cure disease is of lesser priority to God then studying the differences between Baptists and Lutherans.

The only relevant "apologist" is also a bit of a lawyer imo.

edit - Justice is a much greater concern than curing disease.

Mega non sequitur. It wouldn't surprise me that God thinks it far more important to cure disease than studying the differences between Baptists and Lutherans.

It goes with the bible verses which say all people are given evidence of God but atheists and non believers are just in deep denial of it which the foxhole takes care of. I think thats where its mostly coming form.

About what?