Can I just say, this guy is doing a fantastic job with the trolling. Big league trolling. Believe me.

Not being able to detect it is pretty next level hilarious IMO, although who knows maybe we are all suffering from poe's right now.

Thanks everyone for your presence.


You are missing the word experience.

I am telling you that your experience of touching your nose is an instance of existence, namely: the existence of your nose, the existence of the event of you touching your nose, and the existence of your being.

You see, existence is such a very broad idea upon which everything we talk about is founded on; the opposite of existence is non-existence, no concept whatsoever is founded upon nothing-ness.

That is why I ask you to do the act of touching your nose, to get you to know what is existence, the concept.

Are you aware that when an idea is the ultimate foundation of all concepts whatsoever, you cannot tell a guy what it is because someone here will tell you that you are into a tautology, and get you as he wants to, all confused.

You have to resort to experience.


So, we have to go to our experience, like the experience of touching our nose, by which we know the existence of our each one's nose.

But what is experience? It is an instance of our consciousness impacting on something, first of course on our existing self; incidentally, when you are not conscious you cannot impact on anything, except at most you are like a walking dead, your behavior is pure robotic.

Here is something for you guys to think about, the two paragraphs below:

Susmario says that with humans and all beings like us with consciousness, consciousness and existence are convertible: wherefore when you are into deep dreamless sleep or into total general anesthesia, or into a comatose state, you don't exist; or your existence is suspended, pending the return of your consciousness.

If you are all alone in your unconscious state for let us say with intentional exaggeration 200 days, you will have also passed into in-animate existence, you are now a dehydrated cadaver.


Let us return to our actual concern.

Now that you and I have the experience of the nose in our face, we can talk about the experience of other things, like how we know about two balls in our lower torso: let you touch the balls hanging from your lower torso; there, you are sure of their existence.

Suppose you don't feel them with your fingers? In which case I am sorry for you, you must have lost them somehow when you were in an unconscious state.

Now that we have the experience of the nose and the balls, we know what existence is.

Exercise No. 1: Is there the existence of the nipples in your upper torso?

Okay, everyone touch the nipples in your upper torso, and tell ourselves, Yes sir, the nipples have existence.

Exercise No. 2: Is there the existence of farting, answer that in your next posts here, now that we have had three instances of experience by which we come to know the meaning of the word, existence.


As soon as we all know what is existence, then we will proceed to do what I call speculative thinking, to learn about other concepts, like the concept of God, as first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.



Happy thinking and writing!

Susmario, you're becoming annoying. Saying the same thing over and over again.

If you don't want to keep debating about something from nothing, get to the point of how given existence you get to god.

Here's how I perceive your argument: Give me one miracle (something created itself) and I'll explain the rest.

Sound about right?

Thank you Susmario for your insightful commentary on the meaning of existence. You have helped clarify many details for me by providing such a cogent definition. I have done all that you ask. I have touched my nipples, my balls, my nose. I have felt the sensation of my fart leaving my *******. I have thought about my existence and your existence and you and me together on this journey of discovery while I was doing all of this. Sadly I have not been able to touch your nose/nipples/balls/******* so I can't confirm your existence, but I can confirm the existence the the pixels on the screen you present and can only imagine what it would be like if you were here with me.

I think I am ready. I think I am ready for you to take me to the next step:

Dearest Susmario, as I am firmly with you on all you have said, for me at least can you help proceed to how we get to god based on the existence of elements of this physical universe we live in?

I thought this thread was about thinking on truths, facts, and logic. Resorting to experience appears to be off topic.

Thanks everyone for your presence.

Now, dear everyone paying attention, honest, sincere, productive attention here, instead of distracting us from the work and the interest we are involved in, namely: “How to come to God existing with thinking on truths, facts, logic, and the history of ideas,” let us leave them to their own self-occupation who are to my observation into distracting us.


So, I will continue from my previous summation:

"As soon as we all know what is existence, then we will proceed to do what I call speculative thinking, to learn about other concepts, like the concept of God, as first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=128"


Thanks, Uke, for your continual attention.

From Uke:
"Dearest Susmario, as I am firmly with you on all you have said, for me at least can you help proceed to how we get to god based on the existence of elements of this physical universe we live in? http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=130"


See next post.


Happy thinking and writing!

Dear Uke, let you and me engage in a dialogical mode of mutual learning from each other.

So, if I may, you and I seek to concur on the submissions from each other, because unless we reach onto concurrence from concurrence, we will not be into learning from each other, and both we will be frustrated.

When you have time, look up with google this work, if memory serves, "A Taxonomy of Educational Objectives," read the whole work which I think must be by now complete in three volumes.

A lot of questions you ask me, you will find the answers there, the authors there are masters with educating the mighty USA.


Now, do we concur that the nose in our face exists: yes? no?

We are now, dear Uke, again into the systematic disquisition of the theme of this thread, namely: "How to come to God existing with thinking on truths, facts, logic, and the history of ideas."


I will be back tomorrow.



Happy thinking and writing!

I am happy to concur that my nose exists, for the purposes of this discussion

I too have checked the nose in my face and found it to exist. Let us proceed to a dialogical examination.

Dearest Susmario, you will forgive my slow reading speed. I am less than half way through the first volume. But I am trying and will continue. Would you consider continuing the discussion while I make progress on your excellent suggested resource for my learning?

Now, as I have said many times - unlike certain other posters ITT whose aim seems merely to try to distract - that I DO concur the existence of the nose on my face.

I am ready.

It is time.

I believe in you.

Please, dearest Susmario, proceed beyond. How to get to God from experiencing physical reality like a nose?

I'm pretty sure that's his whole argument. Because things exist, there must be god.

Thanks everyone for your presence.


So, let us all who do know the existence of the nose in our face, the existence of the balls in our lower torso, the existence of nipples in our upper torso, and the existence of our farting and the fart issuing therefrom, let us proceed to the next step, namely, the next item of concurrence among us all.

Here is my submission for us to work on to come to concurrence.

Things in existence are of two kinds, from our experience of examining them in regard to where they come from, namely:

Things existing from others and things existing from themselves.

Okay, everyone, think about that on truths, facts, logic, and the history of ideas.


Summing up:

1. The nose exists, etc., or the default status of things in the totality of being is existence. Concurred!

2. Things in existence are of two ultimate classes, namely: things existing from others and things existing from themselves. Concurred?

Notice that we are talking concepts as usual; and we will all think on them concepts whatever in our mind, to come to concurrence that the concepts have things corresponding to them concepts, in the realm of objective reality outside our mind.



Happy thinking and writing!

Some 50% of the human population will fail this existence test. Maybe those people don't actually exist based on truths, facts, logic, and human history.

Please make it stop !!!

Do numbers exist? Do they come from themselves or do they come from something else? If they come from something else, what is the something else?

Also, I can't feel the nose on my 7.

Dearest Susmario, I know I am but a humble reader and my posts are not always worthy of your attention, but I must admit so feeling neglected.

I have, over and over, explicitly made clear that I do indeed whole heartedly agree with your one and two. I have for multiple pages in this thread. Yet each time I ask you to take that next step, do go from here to arriving at God, you somehow backtrack.

I suspect the reason here is that so many in this thread are merely agitators not here, like you and I, to come to god, but to distract. But don't let the, distract!

You and I are so close now.

I feel it.

I've felt my balls.

And my mipples.

And my farts.

I am beginning to feel God.

But I need you to get to the next step as you've been repeating the points we agree on for weeks now with no progress.

Can you help me, or not?

What does it mean for something to "exist from itself"? I asked this before and got brushed off but its an important question. Can you please give an example of something that is existing from itself?

Thanks everyone for your presence.


Now, to everyone even though I don't mention your name, please resume our common task to work as to come to concurrence from concurrence, because otherwise we are or you are wasting my time here.

1. We have already concurred that the nose exists, or in general, "The default status of things in the totality of being is existence.

2. I am now asking us all to work as to concur on this statement:

“Things existing are of two ultimate classes: [a] things existing from others, [b] things existing from themselves.”

Now, if you do not concur on #2, please present your explanation why.

From my part with thinking on truths, facts, logic, and the history of ideas, it cannot be otherwise than that things existing are ultimately of either one of two classes: [a] things existing from others, or [b] things existing from themselves.

What about my explanation?

Here it is:
Consider your nose, it comes from your parents, and you can go on from there to the Big Bang and beyond, that is an example of things existing from others; continue on as I said beyond the Big Bang and on and on and on… and sooner than later you come to the sure conclusion that the nose in our face has its origin ultimately in thing(s) which exist from themselves.

For posters who will not concur with me on #2 and will not explain as to be lucid to readers here, instead of going into inanities, please go away, I will not read you.

Happy thinking and writing!

This is not a sure conclusion. Why is it impossible to have an infinite regression of things that came from other things?

There's also some question as to the meaning of what it means for something to exist "from" itself.

Dearest Susmario, do you care nothing for me? Do you care nothing for my feelings?

You and I have been together, agreeing on numbers one and two for literally weeks. We agree! Let's not worry ourselves with these others trying to distract from our mission. Let's get to e conclusion!

I concur on one and two. Now how do we come to God?

Please don't abandon me when we are so close, not even the comfort of experiencing the existence of my balls and my nipples and my nose and help me here when you refuse to help me go further

I cant say whether I concur on #2 or not, because I dont understand what it means for "things to come from themselves". Perhaps if I understood that, I could concur.

You cant go "beyond" the big bang, since beyond implies time, and time ( according to science anyway) started at the big bang

I find it incredibly dishonest how you claim to be here to debate and learn, and yet you dismiss close to 100% of questions aimed at you

No one can concur with this because both [a] and [b] are nonsensical combinations of words. It is impossible to either agree or disagree with them because they do not form a coherent thought.

Do you agree that banana keyboard quickly?

Consider the nose in your face, which comes from your parents, and so is an example of a thing that comes from another thing. And also think on this: that same nose consists of many cells, each of which continues to divide, thereby producing new cells - these new cells are therefore existing things that come from themselves.

So by thinking on the nose in our face with logic and the history of ideas of biology we can verify the two types of existence [a] and [b] as Susmario described. Now could there be other varieties of existence, things that don't come from somewhere else or from themselves? I say no based on the history of ideas and logic.

Let us proceed to God.