The separation of the self is imaginary, made up. there is no self that is separate from the material universe, its just an illusion, a belief.

There is a self because it group identifies.

What does this even mean, and how does it contradict neeeel's statement?

Tim Keller talks about this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kxup3OS5ZhQ

God has said in the bible that there's a time set in the future when all suffering will end.

But it could end sooner at death.

Why do you get all caught up in the wars, etc.?

Are they the only examples in life you can draw conclusions from?

Let's take 2 other examples to illustrate principles of the bible:

First one, a baby learning to walk. It sure hurts to watch a baby learn to walk. He's always falling on his butt but he gets back up again and learns to walk.

Second one, you enter college or the military or some other thing that requires that you give more than you're willing to give under normal circumstances but you put up with it because you have a goal and you know the difficult situation is temporary.

People learn from their failures and successes don't they? Or do they? Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't.

In any case if you read the bible those are sort of 2 paradigms (similar to the 2 examples given above) operating. Do you think it doesn't pain God watching human beings? It most probably does. Still He sticks to His plan.

Do you know anybody that gets good results by abandoning a plan in midstream? Of course, that might be a bad comparison. A lot of people are fallible and come up with poor plans. But do you really think the God of the bible who's reported as far above human beings in intellectual capability came up with a poor plan?

There is a cycle pattern outlined in the book of Judges if you're interested:
http://www.jesusplusnothing.com/stud...ne/judges1.htm

If you understood the word of God, you would know that God never intended for mankind to suffer the way they do.

God set spiritual laws in motion, God gave instructions to mankind.

If mankind decided NOT to follow the right way, why would you think that any of the things that come upon them would be God's fault?

For example:

I put you on top of a skyscraper in New York. Then I tell you that you can do whatever you want up there BUT if you decide to jump off the building you will die.

Now, the man has a choice. If he jumps off the side of the building is it God's fault or the man's fault?