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Old 08-01-2011, 07:34 PM   #91
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Re: God and death of children...

people wont want to sin in heaven obv
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Old 08-01-2011, 07:44 PM   #92
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Re: God and death of children...

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people wont want to sin in heaven obv
why
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Old 08-01-2011, 07:57 PM   #93
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Re: God and death of children...

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So if there is free will in heaven, is there the capacity to sin? If yes, what happens if you sin in heaven? If no, why (or if your answer is "i dont know", then whats your best guess)?
When in heaven, one has what scripture calls an "incorruptible" nature, which seems to imply an incapacity to sin, which really means the lack of an intent to go against God. We already knew there can be no sin in heaven anyway, because the will of God is always done there (unlike on earth where man's will often prevails). You could say God's and man's wills are in accord in heaven, not to say they are identical any more than God's and Adam's wills were identical when Adam was "perfect" before corrupting himself.
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Old 08-01-2011, 09:45 PM   #94
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Re: God and death of children...

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God set it up for Adam to make a choice. Success or failure depended on Adam. It ended up a failure...
So it was 50/50 right? Either Adam sinned or he didn't. Well, suppose Adam chose not to sin. Do you think he would have sinned later on in his life? No? Okay, suppose Adam never sinned ever. Suppose Eve never sinned ever. What about their children? And their grandchildren? And so on…

What are the odds that no one before us (here in 2011) ever sinned? Practically ZERO percent, right? So why do you act like evil exists because of Adam’s 50/50 choice instead of preaching the reality: God’s world will 99.99...% result in evil.

And yet you say God is good.
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Old 08-02-2011, 12:45 AM   #95
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Re: God and death of children...

That is what i was going to ask but there is never a good answer. It was an inevitable trap as far as i can see.
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Old 08-02-2011, 01:05 AM   #96
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Re: God and death of children...

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So it was 50/50 right? Either Adam sinned or he didn't.
That isn't what 50/50 means.
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Old 08-02-2011, 01:31 AM   #97
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Re: God and death of children...

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So it was 50/50 right? Either Adam sinned or he didn't. Well, suppose Adam chose not to sin. Do you think he would have sinned later on in his life? No? Okay, suppose Adam never sinned ever. Suppose Eve never sinned ever. What about their children? And their grandchildren? And so on…

What are the odds that no one before us (here in 2011) ever sinned? Practically ZERO percent, right? So why do you act like evil exists because of Adam’s 50/50 choice instead of preaching the reality: God’s world will 99.99...% result in evil.

And yet you say God is good.
This involves a lot of random speculation without Biblical foundation. No one knows what the probabilities were. No one knows what would have happened if Adam hadn't chosen to sin when he did. Maybe the tree was only going to be there for a limited time. Maybe Adam was the only one in jeopardy. Etc.
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Old 08-02-2011, 11:41 AM   #98
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Re: God and death of children...

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When in heaven, one has what scripture calls an "incorruptible" nature, which seems to imply an incapacity to sin, which really means the lack of an intent to go against God. We already knew there can be no sin in heaven anyway, because the will of God is always done there (unlike on earth where man's will often prevails). You could say God's and man's wills are in accord in heaven, not to say they are identical any more than God's and Adam's wills were identical when Adam was "perfect" before corrupting himself.
If Adam's will was "perfect" then how did he corrupt himself? How could he have gone against god and eat the apple?

So in heaven everyone will follow GOD and no one will even have an argument and debate with him about things? Everyone will be a robot? Great times! Mindless zombies
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Old 08-02-2011, 06:41 PM   #99
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Re: God and death of children...

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This involves a lot of random speculation without Biblical foundation. No one knows what the probabilities were. No one knows what would have happened if Adam hadn't chosen to sin when he did. Maybe the tree was only going to be there for a limited time. Maybe Adam was the only one in jeopardy. Etc.
Maybe the Bible is a fairy tale. And maybe Zeus was the real God, but we all missed the boat. And maybe God doesn't care about us either way. And maybe there is no God.

You're right, no one knows what the probabilities are.
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Old 08-02-2011, 09:12 PM   #100
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Re: God and death of children...

Concerto, so if a person gets to heaven but he disagrees with god about the way he has abandoned people on earth will he/she just change their mind and agree with god that he has done a good job since in heaven everyone seems to just worship god as if everything he does is perfect ? For example, what if I become a believer and get to heaven and when I meet god I will tell him, hey god I completely object to the way you have abandoned of all these hungry children in Africa I also think that you have not been doing a good job when it comes to designing earth. All those natural disasters, diseases, etthiNly have pretty much abandoned humanity yet you are asking for unconditional love and worship which seems very not cool. So how is that going to work out?
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Old 08-03-2011, 08:42 AM   #101
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Re: God and death of children...

u are all being trolled by the master troll Concerto, its obvious
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Old 08-03-2011, 05:44 PM   #102
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Re: God and death of children...

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And that singular foreseen possibility is the *result* of a free will choice between multiple possibilities.
You're describing a paradox. Paradoxes can't exist. Like God.

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Responsibility for a disaster only transfers to you if had the duty to intervene to prevent it. This does not apply under conditions where the cause of the disaster is the victim's free and informed choice within the province of their ownership, as was the case with Adam.
As you said, responsibility is intent. It has nothing to do with "duty", because no-one has a duty to do anything.

Under the auspices of an omnipotent being, nothing could possibly happen unless it was intended by him. Responsibilty automatically falls on any observer with the power to change a foreseeable outcome.

If a child is certainly about to be hit by a car and you know you can certainly save her by calling out, you are completely responsible for her death if you stand silent and watch, because you had the power to prevent it.

Because you had the power to prevent it, if you had *intended* her not to die, you would have called out.

If you (or a god) have the same infallible foresight and power with regards to everything in reality, you (or a god) are completely responsible for everything in reality.
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Old 08-08-2011, 03:30 AM   #103
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Re: God and death of children...

Bump.

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Maybe you'll get around to explaining precisely why you disagree with this eventually. Until then, you are effectively conceding my point by not addressing it.
Ditto.
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