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Old 07-25-2011, 09:07 PM   #16
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Re: God and death of children...

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You said "that's right" then disagreed with me. Bacteria and viruses are incapable of good and evil. Therefore they don't perform good or evil acts. They are simply part of the environment.
they perform as they are "designed" to do so.. if they are designed with an evil intention then they are performing an evil function.
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Old 07-25-2011, 09:19 PM   #17
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Re: God and death of children...

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they perform as they are "designed" to do so.. if they are designed with an evil intention then they are performing an evil function.
God never did anything with an evil intention. At least according to his (and my) definition of evil. Obviously you are using a different definition, which is pretty much a conversation stopper.
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Old 07-25-2011, 10:13 PM   #18
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Re: God and death of children...

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God never did anything with an evil intention. At least according to his (and my) definition of evil. Obviously you are using a different definition, which is pretty much a conversation stopper.
Oh really , what was the good purpose of creating the HIV virus or Yersinia pestis?
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Old 07-25-2011, 10:17 PM   #19
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Re: God and death of children...

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... Probably hundreds of billions of human conceptions and at least fifty billion children have died, the great majority from nonhuman causes, before reaching the age of mature consent...
This is strongly counter to my intuition - I would have bet quite a lot that fifty billion humans have not yet existed, let alone hundreds of billions of human conceptions - really?
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Old 07-25-2011, 10:29 PM   #20
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Re: God and death of children...

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This is strongly counter to my intuition - I would have bet quite a lot that fifty billion humans have not yet existed, let alone hundreds of billions of human conceptions - really?
He lists the numbers in the Historical Statistical Demographic Analysis.

"Contrary to the widespread impression that the over 6.5 billion humans currently living constitute a major portion of humanity since its first appearance, the number born to date is some 100 billion."4

Haub 1995/2004 is widely considered the most authoritative estimate of the total cumulative population. Haub judges his figure of 105 billion to be conservative, and other attempts produce similar results. Consider that two millennia ago the global population was a few hundred million. Because of the extremely high fertility rates at a time when average lifespans were only a quarter-century or less, the population essentially replaced itself every generation. There have been 200 generations since Christ as the population edged up, so many tens of billions have been born since, as well as before, then. Ten billion were born just in the last 100 years.
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Old 07-25-2011, 10:50 PM   #21
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Re: God and death of children...

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"Contrary to the widespread impression that the over 6.5 billion humans currently living constitute a major portion of humanity since its first appearance, the number born to date is some 100 billion."
Cheers.
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Old 07-25-2011, 11:19 PM   #22
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Re: God and death of children...

Seems like no one wants to read the paper.. Here's am intreresting point.
"Turning to the paradise option, it is presumed herein that all souls who reside in heaven are perpetually happy, and love and worship the PSCI, and that no dissent occurs. If tens or hundreds of billions of souls arrive in heaven without choosing to do so, then many or the great majority of souls get free access to paradise, which is consequently populated by enormous numbers of the very type of mind controlled, robotic automata that advocates of divine free will go to lengths to decry as violating a major requirement of the creator. Of these souls the maximum portion possible have experienced intense suffering, even though none had the occasion to express their free will. Nor did a large portion of heavenly souls who were adults at death have sufficient earthly information about their ultimate choice. In the end only a small minority of a few billion residents of paradise are not automata. It follows that the FWH is further falsified.The logic of the numbers when the Holocaust of the Children is combined with acceptance of all immature souls into heaven is dangerous to the theodicy defense. If countless billions are entering heaven with limited or no practical earthly experience, then the prem-ise that submitting to the positive and negative aspects of dwelling on the planet is important to making humans suitable for paradise cannot be true."
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Old 07-25-2011, 11:59 PM   #23
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Re: God and death of children...

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Oh really , what was the good purpose of creating the HIV virus or Yersinia pestis?
Can you think of any reason why I should know that?
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Old 07-26-2011, 12:07 AM   #24
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Re: God and death of children...

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Can you think of any reason why I should know that?
Well apparently you claim to know that he didn't do it with an evil intention so you might as well know if it's not evil then you should know the good intention of creating these deadly diseases for , right?
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Old 07-26-2011, 12:09 AM   #25
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Re: God and death of children...

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Bacteria and viruses are not moral beings, so they can't be good or evil.
Priceless....A++++.
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Old 07-26-2011, 12:12 AM   #26
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Re: God and death of children...

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Priceless....A++++.
I would give it an F since it had nothing to do with the argument.
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Old 07-26-2011, 12:17 AM   #27
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Re: God and death of children...

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I would give it an F since it had nothing to do with the argument.
I dont think it's priceless, but it isnt irrelevant. You asked whether they chose to become killers - pretty clearly they made no such choice, so it was a weird question.

The heart of any dispute on morality with Concerto is always going to rest on the question of what constitutes good. He has a logically unassailable position - just one that isn't plausible to many of us.
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Old 07-26-2011, 12:19 AM   #28
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Re: God and death of children...

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There are no "versions" of Christianity that claim when a child dies they
go straight to hell. If some individual holds that position, then they
are in opposition to all Christian doctrine that I know of.
Some religious people claim there is an age of accountability. Most say the age is indeterminate but some say it doesn't start til Bar Mitavah age so children aren't accountable for sins.

In the bible on the death of David and Bathsheba's first child the account is:

2 Samuel 12 v.18 (NIV):

18 On the seventh day the child died. David’s attendants were afraid to tell him that the child was dead, for they thought, “While the child was still living, he wouldn’t listen to us when we spoke to him. How can we now tell him the child is dead? He may do something desperate.”

19 David noticed that his attendants were whispering among themselves, and he realized the child was dead. “Is the child dead?” he asked.

“Yes,” they replied, “he is dead.”

20 Then David got up from the ground. After he had washed, put on lotions and changed his clothes, he went into the house of the LORD and worshiped. Then he went to his own house, and at his request they served him food, and he ate.

21 His attendants asked him, “Why are you acting this way? While the child was alive, you fasted and wept, but now that the child is dead, you get up and eat!”

22 He answered, “While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept. I thought, ‘Who knows? The LORD may be gracious to me and let the child live.’ 23 But now that he is dead, why should I go on fasting? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.”

They like to assume the worst on here without researching the bible or doctrine.

Last edited by Splendour; 07-26-2011 at 12:21 AM. Reason: clarity.
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Old 07-26-2011, 12:21 AM   #29
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Re: God and death of children...

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I dont think it's priceless, but it isnt irrelevant. You asked whether they chose to become killers - pretty clearly they made no such choice, so it was a weird question.
.
I did not ask that question.. What I've asked was in to the reference of this statement "After all, he was not born a killer. One could argue that he chose to become one."

Then I stated "That's right, but the one who created them and decided they will perform evil did know what he is doing, hence he was doing an evil act."

Agreeing from the beginning that viruses nor bacteria have a choice to do evil, but they are "programed" to do so.

Last edited by gskowal; 07-26-2011 at 12:27 AM.
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Old 07-26-2011, 12:27 AM   #30
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Re: God and death of children...

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I did not ask that question.. What I've asked was in to the reference of this statement "After all, he was not born a killer. One could argue that he chose to become one."
"Let's take bacteria and viruses as few from many of these killers, did bacteria or a virus choose to become killers?"

is the question he quoted and it's a weird one.
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